I started sketching some plans for a 300 gallon grow out rack system. I don’t plan on starting construction for a few months but I want to have the entire blueprint ready before my first trip to the Home Depot. I really don’t have experience with rigid pvc plumbing or drilling tanks but I’m willing to bet a lot of you do and would be willing to help with this fun project come next spring! Here is my rough scale model of the shelving and plumbing concept.
300 galllon Grow Out rack system
Plumbing
The shelving would be constructed from 2x4’s and 3/4" plywood. It will hold 10 x 20 gallon drilled tanks and use a 100 gallon Rubbermaid stock sump. There should be more than 10" of clearance over each tank. Initially, I was hoping to place the sump directly beneath the shelving but the overall height of the system became unrealistic quickly. The current plans are under 7’ and I can just about place my arm up to my elbow in the uppermost tanks without a step ladder.
I’ve made a closed loop to feed the tanks from the sump pump. I’m told this is the best way to equalize the return pressure but please correct me if I’m wrong. As I said before, I don’t have a ton of experience with the plumbing.
Filtration is going to be the biggest concern with this setup. Let’s assume I end up with 75-100 fish per tank that I’d like to grow out for 6 months to a year. It’d be nice if I did not have to rely on 75 gallon weekly water changes. I wanted to use an in-tank skimmer located in the sump but I’m told it can be tricky to dial in since the water level will fluctuate. Maybe an external skimmer that is placed next to the sump? Anyone have any thoughts on external versus internal skimmers?
I’d like to also like to T the pump return line directly into a wet/dry filter located in or on top of the sump. This will act as the primary biological filtration.
My initial thoughts here are to not use any sand bed, live rock or refugium. I’m not sure how much of an impact they would make on top of the big skimmer and the big wet/dry with bioballs. In addition, I really don’t have the room. I’d have to sacrifice a 20 gallon tank or put a lot of sand and rock in the sump which I was kind of opposed to. I guess rock and chaeto in the sump couldn’t hurt but I’m not doing a sand bed in there. How much of an impact do you think it would make if i converted one of the 20 gallon tanks into an 8 inch deep sand bed with macro algae? Maybe that’s the best plan?
[quote=“RCA, post:41, topic:573”]
It’d be nice if I did not have to rely on 75 gallon weekly water changes[/quote]
Stop right there. This is a fish breeding system not a reef tank. If you have money and time to throw away experimenting with this trying to avoid doing water changes by all means.(also realize your water quality may suffer and you may end up with poor quality “special†clownfish. IE Retarded)
If this is all for fun and you realize it will cost you a ton of money to get these clown fish out there and not make a dime then experiment. If you want to produce quality live stock and not go broke then don’t ignore decades of research and experimentation that has already been done. Water changes is the way to go.
[quote=“RCA, post:41, topic:573”]
I wanted to use an in-tank skimmer located in the sump but I’m told it can be tricky to dial in since the water level will fluctuate.[/quote]
Take a look at any commercial made sump(marineland, aqueon, oceanic) and you’ll have your solution. If you place a divider in the sump then the water level will change in the portion where the return pump is and not the other area. If you are planning to use something like a large rubbermaid and believe it will not be easy to install a divider then consider placing the skimmer in a smaller rubbermaid inside of the other one which water draining from the tanks returns into. Then the water overflows the top continuously back into the main sump and the water line always stays the same on the skimmer.
[quote=“RCA, post:41, topic:573”]
Anyone have any thoughts on external versus internal skimmers?[/quote]
If you like wet smelly floors go external. Skimmer will overflow or leak at some point. Doesn’t matter if it is a $50 skimmer or a $10,000 skimmer. You just have a choice of having it leak into your sump or onto your floor.
Personally I would use a little bit of live rock in each tank or some in the sump. I believe it would help stabilize the system. This is a matter of opinion though and I know a lot of fish breeders use very little in terms of LR.
[quote author=RCA link=topic=2449.msg29336#msg29336 date=1258743004]In addition, I really don’t have the room[quote]
Is the 100 on the sump mean it is a 100gallon sump? If so and you are considering an external pump and wet dry filter… what do you plan to put in the sump? Or what about a couple of pieces in each tank? You know live rock can be used in bare bottom tanks with out sand right? Personally I wouldn’t mess with any sand at all.
What I’m saying with the water changes is if you are trying to avoid the work it takes to do water changes, then I wouldn’t suggest taking on this project if that amount of work worries you.(If this is the case and you are used to doing water changes with 5g buckets look into using 44g brutes and a mag 7) If it is for financial reasons involved in the buckets of salt then I would just like to say you need to crunch all the finical numbers and figure out if this project is feasible. I would hate to see you go broke 75% of the way through this.
I can understand looking into the possibility of doing less or no water changes, but just want to make sure you are prepaid to do them if you have to.(and I think you will find you have to)
I’m not afraid of water changes by any means. I currently do 20 gallons worth of water changes every week. 5 in my 24 reef (20%), 5 in the 70 broodstock (7%), and 10 in the 90 fish only (11%). I never miss a water change. I’m pretty accustomed to the routine of preparing multiple 5 gallon buckets overnight and water changes in this theoretical system should be relatively easy with an exposed 100 gallon sump to work with. I’m just saying 75 gallons (25%) seems like an awful lot and I’d prefer it if my biological and mechanical filtration could limit the changes to maybe 30 gallons (10%) a week. I’ve never dealt with a system this large with potentially this big of a bioload so I honestly don’t know. I understand your point though. I won’t be skipping water changes. I’ll even hire Armco if I’m too busy with work (still looking so not likely, ha!)
I had read about placing a tank within the rubbermaid sump to maintain a constant water level for the skimmer. I’m pretty sure I’ll be going that route. Especially after what you said about leaking.
Yes, it’s a 100 gallon Rubbermaid sump. I planned on using an external pump since that’s what I see most people doing with this unit. I was going to use your idea of T’ing the return line directly back into the sump to take care of any extra pressure and I’ll use that “clean” return water to feed a wet/dry filter before it returns into the sump.
I’m pretty sure I’ll end up with rock in the sump. I won’t have rock in the individual tanks. I’m leaning towards converting one of the tanks into an 8" deep sand bed with macro and mangroves. It seems like a good idea the more I think about it.
It’s been 5 weeks now since I first got the Picassos.
The Alpha male finally developed black pigmentation on his Cadual fin. He was the last to develop it and now all the fish are sporting black on their tails to some extent. The Alpha female’s black pigments on her tail fin extended quite a bit this week as was expected.
Nothing new to report with the Beta pair.
The Gamma male used to spend a lot of time rubbing up against the lips of the clay pot and it has irritated his skin under his belly. There is huge lump that is visible in the pictures. I’m assuming it will heal over time but I’m keeping a close eye on it. I’d hate for it to get infected. The Gamma female’s tail pigmentation also continued to fill in.
The next color development I’ll be keeping an eye out for will be the Pectoral Fins. I’m pretty sure they are the last to develop. The Beta pair already has their Pectoral Fins completely filled in. The Alpha female and Gamma male may be showing the first signs of color developing there but it’s too soon to say for certain.
r these “semi picasso” clowns? or technically “grade a”'s?? i was reading on these guys awhile back, and i know there r 3 “grades” depending on the striping. a’s had all 3 stripes connected somehow, b’s had 2 stripes connected, and c’s had mis-shapen stripes, but none connected… i think thats how it went. just curious what these guys were considered?
Well to answer your question, I bought these as 2 grade A’s and 4 grade B’s.
The grading is a real mess though.
ORA started calling the nicest looking fish Grade A to sell them for more money. It had nothing to do with connecting stripes.
Then Doni’s Reef came along and split the fish into several grades.
A’s have two stripes connecting on both sides of the fish.
B’s possibly have one stripe connecting only.
C’s are normal percs or misbars.
Doni then named extremely white fish Snowcassos. This confused a lot of people who thought that Snowflakes=Snowcassos. But Snowflakes are Ocellaris clownfish that ORA sells with the “picasso” gene.
In my opinion, the grade has nothing to do with the overall beauty of the fish. In fact, most Grade B’s look better to me than Grade A’s because it gives them the “jigsaw” look with more of a natural looking fish.
To further add to this mess the grading standards that Doni came up with don’t really apply to a majority of her fish. Not a single one of my fish have two bars connecting on both sides. But several of them have all three bars connecting on one side. I guess Doni just splits the difference and rounds up based on the amount of white?
When I eventually manage to sell some fish, I’m going to set the cost on the overall appearance of the animals, not just an abstract rule about white bars touching or not.
Semi-picasso’s are an old term. ORA originally called their lower grades Semi-Picassos and their really white fish (what Doni calls a Snowcasso) was called a True Picasso. But then they renamed it a Platinum Percula and adopted the Grade A. I’ll make a chart, haha…
Doni’s Reef Old ORA New ORA
Grade C Normal/Misbar Normal/Misbar
Grade B Semi-Picasso Grade B
Grade A Semi-Picasso Grade A
Snowcasso True-Picasso Platinum Percula
It should be noted that a Platinum Percula is almost Bill Addison’s Wyoming White.
but i can say, to this day, ora still has the "semi picasso. and it seems that NO bars touch. dunno what thats worth, but whatever. havent seen “true picassos” on their list in awhile. they do have platinums recently, but they r retailing for 200 bux each. semis r around 70 ea… now this gets even worse, “naked” percs retail around 25 ea. so, here goes the million dollar question!
does it take MORE selective breeding to get a perc with ALL white v.s. one with NO white???
someone overseas is breeding picassos now also. got some through a transshipper a few months back, REALLY cheap. retailed for around 25 bux. but they looked like crap. i havent seen anyone match ora’s quality of fish yet. i wish they could farm a lot more species!!! lol
I have to disagree with you about ORA’s picassos looking the best. A majority of their grade A’s just have a single straight line connecting the 3rd strip with the middle stripe. No jigsaw look at all. Here is what 90% of ORA picasso’s look like, thanks Saltwaterfish.com for the pic.
You can tell it’s an ORA fish because it just has a single line connecting the rear stripes and a pair of sideburns. Pretty boring IMO. Of course, my fish come from an ORA Platinum Percula and a WC Solomon’s Island Perc but my gene pool is obviously different. ORA does put out some very nice Picasso’s, don’t get me wrong. It’s just 90% of them look like the fish above.
Oh and about the semi-picassos. If ORA is still using that term than you’re right, it’s the Grade B with possibly one stripe connecting. I’ve seen pictures of semi’s online with a stripe connecting so they have to be following the same rule doni uses. But then again, I’ve seen ORA Grade A’s with only one stripe connecting so again it falls into a subjective thing.
To answer your question, breeding naked’s is a very, very bad idea. It makes sense to breed Picassos. A single pair of Picassos will rear True Percs, Misbar Percs, Grade C Percs, Semi-Picassos, Grade B Picassos, Grade A Picassos, Platinum Percs and Snowcassos. Basically, all the same fish with different names based on the color pattern.
The Alpha female is spending more time out of the flower pot visiting with the male. I’m not sure if he is not allowed in the flower pot or just not interested in it. The Alpha female definitely filled in color on her fins.
Nothing new with the Beta pair.
I spotted the Gamma pair exploring their entire tank this week. The sore that I was keeping an eye on has completely healed on the male and you can see the difference in the pics.
I was bored tonight so I put together a time-lapse collection of pictures that show the Picasso’s development. Each picture was taken about a week apart. I also included a filtered image I’m currently using for my desktop!
Alpha female continues to color up her pectoral fins. Her tail fin filled out nicely. Alpha male has definitely moved out of the fake plant forest and has adopted the HOB filter intake as his new territory. Using the flower pot and filter intake as a reference I’d say the female is now over 1.5" in length and the male is just over 1".
The brief confusion I had over the gender roles of the Beta pair seems to be resolved. The original female has put on some weight and is once again firmly in charge of the duo.
The Gamma pair hardly spends any time apart. The female’s coloration on her tail fin seems to have stalled out for now.
I’m heading to DPA this afternoon to stock up on some supplies. The fish are doing a better job of moving to the food and I think they can handle some higher quality frozen options.
Let me begin by saying there is no way that my fish are cleaning a nest site. They are simply way too young.
Now that I’ve said that, has anyone had a pair of clownfish display nesting behaviors before they reached adulthood? Is this just an instinctual thing that indicates this pair may one day be very productive?
Fun fact… the male parent of these fish, Uno, was 8 months old when he first spawned and my fish are now approximately 6-8 months old. But he was paired with an older female.
Skimmer will overflow or leak at some point. Doesn’t matter if it is a $50 skimmer or a $10,000 skimmer. You just have a choice of having it leak into your sump or onto your floor.
