Have you thought about a remote deep sand bed (RDSB) for denitrating only? Not sure how much room you have, but that is an easy option if you have the room.
what exactly is a RDSB? i always thought it meant REALLY deep sand bed! oooops but yeah i think i have room. i have a 37 gallon tank that has the same base of a 20 gallon long. (not that big, but decent size)
oh my test kit is only about a month old: its an API Reef Master Test Kit
just to give you an idea of what im workin with (i also wanna add in some more live rock and change the aquascaping durring the surgery)
Remote (and really) deep sand bed. Basically a really deep around 12" deep sand bed in a covered bucket. As I understand it, this is only for denitrification, whereas your regular sand bed or DSB has bacteria that will get you to nitrates, but not much further to nitrogen (depending on the depth)
i still dont quite understand, what do you mean by “in a covered bucket”?
A bucket with a cover on it, so no light gets into it. I’ll see if I can dig up some more info for you tonight or maybe someone has more info for you here, I know Icy (Bellamy) was looking into it as an option before as well.
but …like…how would i …put it in my …tank? ???
you dont put it in your tank >LOL<
it works like a reactor. water in, water out. IMO they’re not really good for small systems because of the footprint needed versus its usefullness. Also, if your not careful about straining the water that goes into a RDSB they can quickly turn into a nitrate factory as they begin to collect detritus. i think your better off trying a tried and true method like a refugium or maybe a denitrator but, as with many aspects of this hobby, there are many paths that will get you the same results.
[quote=“matchu627, post:27, topic:1663”]
but …like…how would i …put it in my …tank? ???[/quote]
RDSB are external they are outside the tank, water flow in and out.Lol sorry, what those guys said, it is “remote” i.e. outside of the tank. Thats why I was asking how much room you had. Sorry I wasn’t very clear on that.
As logans_daddy said it’s got to be fairly clean of particulate/crap water, you simply flow water over the sand bed in an external from your tank bucket (or w/e) and is used for only denitrification.
oh…derrr! verdict_in
The detritus would be my primary concern, but you could always use a prefilter. Then again, using a prefilter is just one more thing that would need to be maintained! Arent reef tanks fun? >LOL<
I dont think anyone has given you bad advice, there are dozens of different ways to have a successful tank. Usually what happens is one way will work for someone and that becomes the “sacred method” for that person. For Ken its plenums. For me its a denitrator. It doesnt mean that one is necessarily better than the other. Go with what you think will work for your situation.
Or you can be like me and just do everything :think) what ever works for ya.Hows bout a RDRSB? a really deep remote sand bed? I think when it comes to sand beds, the surface area as a factor of the surface area of the tank is the prime factor. it is the surface that determines the difusion rate of nutrients, in and out of the sand bed. you can have a sand bed 20 feet deep and 1 foot square at the surface, and it wont keep up with a sand bed 20 square feet on the surface, one foot deep. no way. when it comes to fine sand beds, going down an inch gets you into anerobic conditions. so the surface area determines how much can be processes at any time.
a rule of thumb for remote plenum sandbeds has been at least half the surface area of the main tank. so why not just put it in the tank? dont cover too much of it with the rock. use burried platforms and pvc pipe sections to support the rock work near the sand surface. that way you get max diffusion of waste into the surface, aerobic area and then sinks into the deeper anerobic/anoxic area to be converter to N2 gas.
remember the difference between a DSB and a NNR (Natural Nitrate Reducing) DSB is not only the plenum water space below, its also the grain size of the sand. a DSB typically uses sugar grain sized sand and smaller, which is very impermiable to oxegen penetration. the bacteria quickly burn the O2 and below goes anerobic. and the plenum NNR uses a bit larger grains of aragonite, in the 2-4 mm size. that allows enough space between grains for water space and ionic transport of nutrients and some oxygen to the plenum. which is why a plenum wont go sour.
yeah after careful research and consideration, i think im goin with the in-the-tank plenum. i know it will be a lot of work, but i think it will be worth it. it seems to be a bullet-proof and maintenance free way to drop all the nitrates off.
kaptken- does your plenum have a vertical intake pipe on it that u can hook up to a powerhead, or is yours all under the sand plumbing? ive heard of different ways do build them, and want feedback from someone that actually uses one.
thanks to all for the help!
Ken based his plenum on Garf He doesn’t currently have tubes in the sand bed. Once the plenum is started you don’t want tubes forcing oxygenated water through the sand bed.
az-no3 nitrate eliminator
This stuff is said to work excellent if you have exhausted your options (water changing, flow, etc…)
You have to skim hard and make sure your flow is good. I got this from the tank of the month guy. But after some research is seems to be doing well is you do skim wet and get a great flow. I think you should give it a try but I am a rook.
Al is correct. GARF likes to jump start their new plenum sand beds by running them as an under gravel filter for a couple months with a maxijet on a stand pipe into the plenun. Drawing water, detritis and bacteria through the sand. then after it is seeded, they pull out the stand pipe and the plenum is forever burried, to work passivily with no flow. I build mine without a pipe. just cover it up with 3-4 inches of mixed SEAFLOOR SPECIAL GRADE and crushed coral aragonite sand 2-4 mm size, not fine stuff. it takes a bit longer for it to activate, but no problem.
its not completely trouble free. you should keep the crud from building up in the upper sand level. some vacuuming is advised to keep it from clogging up. . and keep as much of the sand bed open to the water as possible to promote difussion to the plenum. for some tanks the plenum is all they need to keep nitrates low or zero. but for heavy load tanks, refugiums and other things are needed also. plenums do consume nitrates, at a moderate rate. so obvioulsy if your nitrate production exceeds that rate, nitrates will still build up. on to adding the next strategy until you got it under control.
[quote=“kaptken, post:38, topic:1663”]
and keep as much of the sand bed open to the water as possible to promote difussion to the plenum. [/quote]
by this, do you mean expose as much sand as i can rather than spreading out the rocks n stuff?
hey kaptken, how important is the pipe ends when im building this thing? can i leave the ends open or do i cap them all off, or half of them, or what? and if i do cap them all off, do i fill them with water first, or cap them off first? sorry for all the questions, but ive never built one of these things before, and i wanna do it right the first time. scratch my last comment, i know what you meant now, lol. verdict_in