Blue Hippo

DRC Archive General Saltwater Discussion
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Wow talk about a HJack but its a good topic just a lot of opinions with little true science to quote.
I don’t disagree with either opinion in regards to tank size because I believe it will vary greatly based on the fishes personality. Both sides have merit beyond what has been put fort by both sides. However, I have had a hippo tang that was 1.5" when I purchased it. It acquired ick and was not the easiest to acclimate to my 75 gallon tank (as all tangs have issues no matter what size tank). Once he was over the initial stress he was a model citizen and swam freely around the tank. I feed him a meaty diet supplemented with lots of nori. He grew to 7" in 2 years and started to get aggressive towards other tank mates. I was hopping at the time to have a larger tank set up before he grew so large but I was forced to sell him. Based on this experience I do think a blue tang will live well in a 4’ tank while small but it will quickly outgrow the tank. If I were stocking again I would avoid the blue hippo because:

  1. Illness during initial acclimation
  2. Final tank size
  3. speed of growth
  4. easy to stress
  5. high bio-load, they eat a lot and poop a lot

Once they are acclimated to a tank they are much easier to acclimated to another tank. My tang went from my 75 to a local 220 gallon without any problems or illness. If someone decides to put the hippo in a 4’ tank please make arrangement for the fishes growth. Be responsible.

I do disagree on diet based on what I have read and experienced. Their diet is said to change based on age but they are primarily referred to as carnivores and supplement with algae. Like any fish a good varied diet is best. While they do a better job of forging the rock for algae then many other fish including other tangs they are just as likely to nip a pod off the rock as eat nori. They are opportunistic and have a high metabolism (they eat a lot and poop a lot).
Here is a blurp from an older thread that we talked briefly about it. http://delreefclub.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=28&topic=1756.0

http://delreefclub.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=28&topic=1756.0#quickreply

[quote=“Gordonious, post:4, topic:1523”]
From what I am reading it seems what is true for other surgeonfish is true for this one in that most of the time lack of food is more of an issue then the type. Though it seems a well rounded diet for Hippo tangs should include a larger percentage of meaty items then it would with most other surgeonfish. It would seem as some people would go as far to call the Hippo tang a planktivore. While other sources would say they are grazers that require some meaty foods in their diet. No one can argue though that they need to be fed often.

It would probably be a good time for us to have a presentation at a regular meeting on sources for information in this hobby. While I won’t really work to discredit the above sources keep in mind a couple of them come up in google searches not because they are the authority on the animal or know the animal well, but because they probably have a staff dedicated to staying high on the google list and spend money to do so. The other reason these sites are not the greatest source is sites like these are notorious for down playing the difficulty of animals to attempt to make a sale. While many of the reputable sites such as some of the above sources have improved significantly in the last three years I would consider their advice right up their with the majority of LFS employees.(consider it and look for more sources)

Here are a couple of extra sources I would trust:

Wet web media

“Stomach contents analysis of wild Paracanthurus show that this fish is omnivorous, consuming benthic and planktivorous invertebrates and attached algae. Aquarium diets need be diverse, fresh and encompass some nutritious “green” material on a daily basis.
Further, your close watch to ascertain that your palette(s) are eating is called for. As feeders they can be driven away by bullying tankmates, and sulk away to dangerous thinness. In my estimation, a lack of nutrition and outright food are the key reasons for loss of these fish.”

Michael Scott (2001)

“Meaty foods to satisfy its zooplankton diet, including finely chopped fresh or frozen shrimp, mysid shrimp, and vitamin-enriched brine shrimp. It will also eat frozen preparations for herbivores. Feed at least 3 times a day.”

Delbeek and Sprung (2005)

“Paracanthurus hepatus, the blue, regal, hepatus or hippo tang is also an algae grazer, though in nature it feeds heavily on zooplankton. Nevertheless, it can be an effective grazer for a reef aquarium, and it should be offered dried seaweed to supplement its diet if it has little algae to graze. This tang often does not do well in the aquarium once it reaches adult size. They will often show aggression towards conspecifics, especially if more than one male is kept in the aquarium. This species in unpredictable in its behaviour towards coral and has been reported to feed on Sinularia and other corals (B. Shepherd pers. Comm.). The spines are also venomous.”
(They also point to, “An excellent guide to surgeonfish and rabbitfish species identification, diet and ecology is Dr. John Randall’s book Suergeonfish of Hawai’I and the World.”)[/quote]

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http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/hcs3/index.php

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very good article tim. BUT, it does say minimum 125 for an adult male… and the young dont travel nearly as far. gues we just agree to disagree.

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That’s a great article…

[quote=“fishguy9, post:23, topic:1894”]
very good article Tim. BUT, it does say minimum 125 for an adult male… and the young dont travel nearly as far. guess we just agree to disagree.[/quote]He does state this as an absolute min based on there spawning requirements but most of the fish do not reach maturity for years. He goes on to say that they require more space then can be provided but this is true in most fish we choose to keep.
One of the best lines quoted for tank size: “Realistically speaking, the “minimum” environment for these fish is any aquarium the owner feels morally and ethically comfortable putting the fish into. Each hobbyist must come to his or her own conclusions, but hopefully these decisions are made only after reviewing the data that is readily available.” I think this is so true. If you plan on buying a fish you are responsible for the well being of the animal from purchase to ultimate demise. My take on this is while a 4’ tank will work initially since all needs are being meet in a smaller area (no need to forage over large areas to find food) it will work but plan for an upgrade or near future trade to keep the animal happy and healthy.
Really good info…Based on this you will usually need to trade or upgrade to a >125 gallon tank after
(max 15" * 80% = 12" after 5 years) Mine was 7"+ after 1.5 years so I would venture they grow 50% of their total size in 2 years in captivity.

What is known from keeping these fish in aquariums smaller than several hundred gallons is that the end result is a fish with stunted growth. The extent of the growth stunt is directly proportionate to the aquarium size. Following Choat and Axe (1996) and the understanding that Acanthurids obtain 80% of their growth in their first 15% of life, you can get an idea of how fast they should be growing in your aquarium. Combine this with an expected 35 years of age per Acanthurid (Chaot and Axe, 1996), we come up with 80% growth obtained in 5.25 years
Finally, no discussion of Surgeonfish would be complete without talking about tank size. This is an often-debated topic that usually becomes heated on both sides of the fence. Most everyone can agree, however, that the larger the aquarium the better off the fish will be. Many authors recommend certain "minimum" aquarium sizes; though it seems no one can agree on exactly what the "minimum" is. Realistically speaking, the "minimum" environment for these fish is any aquarium the owner feels morally and ethically comfortable putting the fish into. Each hobbyist must come to his or her own conclusions, but hopefully these decisions are made only after reviewing the data that is readily available.

Scroll back up to the paragraph discussing mating rituals and you’ll see that Robertson has already given us a reference for territorial dimensions, at least during the mating season. If you take the minimum number of animals (15 - one male, two females, per group with five sub-groups) divided by the minimum defined territory (100m2) you’d discover the groups maintained a minimum of 20m2 each or a minimum of 6.66m2 per animal. For those of you not good with transcribing meters into feet, 6.66m2 works out to be roughly 21.8f2 per animal. That would be an aquarium roughly 7 feet long and 3 feet wide. Hmmm. For the sake of argument let’s take the maximum number of individuals, packed into the largest territory known. Sixty-four fish (one male, seven females per group, and eight sub-groups) packed into 200m2. This works out to 25m2 per sub-group, or just over 3m2 per animal or about 10f2, or about the size of any of the commercially available 125-gallon aquariums. Hence, I would propose this is a good starting point as the absolute minimum aquarium size for any solitary individual.

Juveniles are usually found in loose aggregations while feeding, and as they age will adapt into a more solitary lifestyle. By the time they are adults, the only time they are not solitary is when they are in small harems during mating season. The rare occasion of 30 or more adults forming a school is likely a result of the fish teaming up to overrun an aggressive defender of a territory that has abundant food available.
Another consideration to ponder is food choices. As juveniles, Hepatus tangs are nearly strict planktivores. However, as they age into adulthood, some individuals may begin to supplement their diet with various algae such as Caulerpa. This diet should be mimicked in the home aquarium. Large portions of the diet should consist of Mysis shrimp, and as the fish ages you should begin to supplement the diet with various dried algae such as nori. Your fish may or may not take to eating algae. Most any food presented in the water column will eventually be taken, including enriched brine, and flake. However, the staple of the diet should always remain Mysis or plankton
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Realistically speaking, the "minimum" environment for these fish is any aquarium the owner feels morally and ethically comfortable putting the fish into. Each hobbyist must come to his or her own conclusions, but hopefully these decisions are made only after reviewing the data that is readily available.

Like Al, i thought the above was one of the best quots of the article. Lets face it, none of us provide the “ideal” habitat for our animals. Try as we might to emulate the ocean, we just cant do it. Do your homework, get a feel for the minimum requirements the animal you want will need, and ask yourself if you can provide for them.

People can quote references all day long. It doesnt make you smart and it doesnt make you an expert. It also doesnt mean that because an “expert” wrote it that its right. Like everything in life, this hobby is constantly evolving. Sometimes people have to trust their own observations and experiences and form their own opinions. Very few things are absolute. <*steps off soapbox> ;D

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another good read about stress (even regarding small fish in small tanks) by a great resource, Lee B from south CA… many degrees, does the research for free

http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine-fish-care-health-disease-treatment/19032-stress-single-marine-fish.html

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I sparked a good one :slight_smile: lol. Thank you for all of the interesting points of view, and as I said, all can sleep at night we decided to wait until we have more space for tangs in general :slight_smile: Loved the articles and such b/c I like reading and gathering what everyone thinks :slight_smile: (and then making my own opinion lol)

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When I get home I am going to link this thread and the links posted in the DRC links section so they are their for future reference

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[quote=“TimH07, post:26, topic:1894”]
does the research for free[/quote]

Just a heads up… watch out for any “scientist” who does research for free. Not only is there the problem of funding for any real research, if it is done for free it generally does not have to go through a review process, and there is no guarentee that it is infact legitimate research.

Now that the disclaimer is done, a very interesting ARTICLE and literature review. Good link.

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our two hippos i acclimated with a drip line over a few hours and mostly covered the container while doing so. then i added them to the tank with the room lights on and tank lights off. they were the first fish in the tank but they have been doing good.

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Links and category are up
DRC Links Menu

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that magazine is amazing, here is the home page link

http://reefkeeping.com/index.htm

for all your detailed needs :BEER

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Reefkeeping is good but i think its worth pointing out that there is a lot of controversy about the ezine as of late. A lot of the articles used to be written by paid contributors that many considered to be experts in the hobby(i.e, farley, pro, etc) and the magazine enjoyed a good reputation. Almost all of the former contributors have been pushed out(some under some shady circumstances) and almost all have been replaced by hobbyists and popular contributors on RC. In no way am i saying that the current contributors are not qualified(i happen to be a fan of the new editor) but i think the level of the magazine has deteriorated.Its pretty tough to replace guys with PHDs from Harvard. IME, its a good read but anyone looking for more advanced topics should look to advancedaquarist(online) and CORAL(print). There are other good ones out there, but IME CORAL is one of the best. I also checked out a copy of the new magazine REEFLIFE at DPA and it seemed to be pretty good.

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I wish Reefkeeping mag would have a working search feature and (preferably) an organized index of all articles. Have to do a google search with their name to get any results when looking for a specific topic. I just hate weeding through the results