More questions... this week: Sumps.

well, to keep this as short as possible, i want to quickly address a few issues imo.
-pulling the frame off a tank is a HORRIBLE idea. without a frame, the only thing holding the glass together is silicone… not something i would personally trust with 30 gal of water plus whatever could skim from the tank before it breaks siphon.

-drilling/piping the 2 15 gal tanks together is gonna be WAY cheaper than buying another pump. even if u dont want to drill them, set then against each other and make a skimmer of sorts (overflow) to keep the water levels in them the same.

-i have no clue of what may or may not leach into the water from stainless steel. but i am pretty sure the welds wont be stainless, and simply because it’s food safe does not make it reef safe. ex. soap/cleaners u use on your counter or tabletop would not be ok in a reef tank.

-aside from the sump being “worth a lot just to be under the tank” why not just use the tidepool that came with the tank when u bought it? seems like cutting your skimmer investment in half would of been a more sensible idea than ditching the sump.

sometime we get wrapped up in making these tanks way more difficult than thay have to be. i think with good intentions, we over stress about making sure our tanks are capable of keeping the hardest things in the ocean, when most of us steer clear from anything but the hardiest. all of the overexaggerated equipment on the market today makes it hard not to get wrapped up in it. the hardest stuff to keep is just that… and that makes this stuff the most expensive, and the hardest to get as well. so the things u see COMMONLY in lfs’s are easier to keep and cheaper on the average. i know i kind of rambled on a little bit, but i hope some of this made sense.

[quote=“fishguy9, post:21, topic:1342”]
-drilling/piping the 2 15 gal tanks together is gonna be WAY cheaper than buying another pump. even if u dont want to drill them, set then against each other and make a skimmer of sorts (overflow) to keep the water levels in them the same.[/quote]

The only problem with this is finding something that is cost effective. Buying 2 15gallon tanks and either having someone drill them or buying the 1 1/2" - 2" diamond tipped drillbit may not be very cost effective. I think the drill bit is around $40 by itself. And I am sure the two tanks are going to be like $30 each. Not to mention that I would need to make sure the tank doesn’t have tempered sidewalls, and I still would have to find 2 tanks that will fit underneath my cabinet. That doesn’t look like it is going to happen. I only have about 12 1/4" to work with at the very most.

As for setting them together and making an overflow, I am not sure how to do that. I would still have to move the water from one tank to the other using a pump. So matching two pumps would be a nightmare, like someone already said.

[quote=“fishguy9, post:21, topic:1342”]
-aside from the sump being “worth a lot just to be under the tank” why not just use the tidepool that came with the tank when u bought it? seems like cutting your skimmer investment in half would of been a more sensible idea than ditching the sump.[/quote]

When I initially bought the setup from my LFS, I was planning on using that setup just as it sat in a FOWLR tank. After seeing other tanks, and other setups, I started to feel that maybe a Reef tank would be what I wanted. When I started to do more research into Reef tanks and talk to people that had been in the hobby, namely Dr. Mac, they recommended going a different direction. Dr. Mac took the time to show me the setup that he has on his tanks and when he explained the basis of how skimmers work and the science behind it, I felt like putting the money into a better skimmer would be better for the tank and would allow me to switch my tank to a full Reef tank in time. It also seemed like less work and in the end would give me a much better looking tank. I won’t have to clean 3 filters on a daily basis. I just have to remember to empty the skimmer cup, and keep a watch on my water specs.

The other thing is, the tidepool it is too small to be my only sump. It will just barely fit the ASM skimmer that I have, and it leaves no room to have any kind of a refugium. I also need my sump to be a holding tank in case I ever lose power. As most of you know, with an overflow system if my pump stops working, gravity will not. So its going to keep putting water into my sump until the level of water drops low enough to stop overflowing. With the Tidepool, even without the skimmer, I dont think it could hold much water out of the overflow and that isn’t acceptable to me. I can’t take the chance that something happens in the middle of the day and floods my dining room. My wife would have my head.

In hindsight, I wish I had done just a little more planning and a little more research. But, that is why hindsight is 20/20.

*** Important Part ***
Finally, I think I am going to attempt to build my own acrylic tank. I have to do a little more research, but I think I can get a 4’x8’ sheet of 1/8" acrylic for around $40 from Lowes. I also can’t remember if that was acrylic or plexiglass. If it is plexiglass, I will have to look around and see if I can use plexiglass, just to make sure it wont leech chemicals into the water. I know for a fact that they have a 2’x4’ sheet 1/4" acrylic for $43. The only thing I don’t know is whether it is cell cast or extruded. One sight I quickly skimmed over said that it is very important to have cell cast. We will see what happens. Hopefully this will end my adventures of starting this tank and start the adventure of maintaining the tank…

Not sure If your interested but I have 2 old sumps( Wet Dry) in the garage, they are the kind that had bio balls in them at one point. Not sure of the measurements. one has a hole at the bottom, that I used to link a trash can to. Just need a plug, I guess depending on what you are wanting to do. Well anyway Ill take pics tomorow if your interested. Lee

why not do two seperate tanks with two seperate lines. pump them up with one big pump. use one tank for your fuge and one for your skimmer.

FYI if you only need 2-5 holes with the bit a $6 will work off Ebay.

If you do acrylic I would do 1/4" and at $43 its not cast

+1 on the 1/4" part, 1/8" will be too flimsy IMO, I used 1/4" on my overflow, but probably could have been fine with 3/16

[quote=“bz350, post:24, topic:1342”]
why not do two seperate tanks with two seperate lines. pump them up with one big pump. use one tank for your fuge and one for your skimmer.[/quote]

so off the bottom of the tank i would tee the lines off and run into both tanks? and then to pump them back up, i would run 1 pipe from each tank into a tee just before the pump and then back up into the tank? So it would look something the attachment?


ok… just start with the sump. skip the refugium for now… even though u may save a little money later by doing it all in the beginning, i just think u are bombarding yourself with too much at one time. especially being pretty new to the whole thing, i am scared u are gonna frustrate yourself and view this whole thing as more of a chore than a hobby. not really being able to sit back and enjoy the tank because u are always gonna be worried about one thing or another. just hate to see someone get into the hobby and overwhelm themselves. and to me, it seems like you are being pulled in 14 different directions and getting overwhelmed a little. i think adding your refugium later will be simple, by just making an overflow (few pieces of pvc, i can show u) and moving your pump to the refugium. i agree with the sump size being able to hold the water from your tank in case of a power loss, just seemed like your options were short with trying to find a tank to fit. plexi glass i am pretty sure would be perfect. i am just not sure how to bond it. maybe someone else can chime in on that…

As an FYI to kind of go along with what fishguy said, I’ve run my tank with just a wet/dry system for 7 months now. I think it’s a little more fun to make it a project you can go back and revisit after a while and modify (i.e. add the refugium part) but maybe that is just me.

I have no idea how to bond acrylic I was going to bond with PVC glue and then go back over the seams with silicone, but I ended up bending for my over flow.

[quote=“fishguy9, post:28, topic:1342”]
ok… just start with the sump. skip the refugium for now… even though u may save a little money later by doing it all in the beginning, i just think u are bombarding yourself with too much at one time. especially being pretty new to the whole thing, i am scared u are gonna frustrate yourself and view this whole thing as more of a chore than a hobby. not really being able to sit back and enjoy the tank because u are always gonna be worried about one thing or another. just hate to see someone get into the hobby and overwhelm themselves. and to me, it seems like you are being pulled in 14 different directions and getting overwhelmed a little. i think adding your refugium later will be simple, by just making an overflow (few pieces of pvc, i can show u) and moving your pump to the refugium. i agree with the sump size being able to hold the water from your tank in case of a power loss, just seemed like your options were short with trying to find a tank to fit. plexi glass i am pretty sure would be perfect. i am just not sure how to bond it. maybe someone else can chime in on that…[/quote]

Yeah, I think my biggest problem with any hobby that I get into, and I have a few, is that I can’t settle for just anything. I think in most cases I have good intentions to start small and work my way up, but then as I get more into the hobby I realize that I just won’t be happy with small. I think for now, the easiest thing may be just to start with a sump that will fit my cabinet and that my skimmer will fit into. I know that Dr. Mac did not have refugium that I saw and actually didn’t mention even needing one, until we asked him about them. Then he said that it would be a good addition to help filtration, but not a necessity.

So, even if I start with just a sump of some sort that my skimmer will fit in, I still have the issue of needing something skinny enough to fit in my cabinet. I am going to start another post asking about the different materials needed to make a tank, since it could benefit other people that could care less about how to make a sump. Thanks for all the help and information, and if any of you have a 20gallon tank that I can use (has to be 12" wide or less), let me know. At this point, I’ll pay a fortune for it!!! verdict_in verdict_in verdict_in

Why are you using 2 tanks for the sump and fuge? I may have missed it. Why not put a large baffle in one tank and cover both (sump/fuge) without having to worry about water levels and overflowing one. Splitting water into 2 different tanks and then removing water from 2 different tanks is very hard to manage. There are better plumbing setup to fix this but why not make 1 combined sump?

[quote=“a1amap, post:31, topic:1342”]
Why are you using 2 tanks for the sump and fuge? I may have missed it. Why not put a large baffle in one tank and cover both (sump/fuge) without having to worry about water levels and overflowing one. Splitting water into 2 different tanks and then removing water from 2 different tanks is very hard to manage. There are better plumbing setup to fix this but why not make 1 combined sump?[/quote]

Unfortunately, I have limited space in my cabinet. I only have 12 1/4" of width to deal with, so finding a 20 or 30g tank that will fit at 12" wide is next to impossible. Then the problem would be if I do find a tank that will fit that width, it is 30" - 36" long and will not fit in through the back or front of the stand because there is a brace between the doors on the front and a brace splitting the hole in the back into two openings.

I have thought about building a 2x4 support inside of the stand and remove those two center braces in order to give me the room, but I don’t plan on doing that until I am sure that I can find a tank that is skinny enough to fit in the bottom of the stand. It doesn’t look like there is a 20 or 30g tank out there that is less than 12 1/4" wide if I leave the plastic frames around the glass. I can’t imagine the flimsy plastic frame doing much if the glass seams fail, but a few people have said its a bad idea to remove it.

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