Octo experience? NEW CRAPPY VIDEO!

DRC Archive General Saltwater Discussion
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can spend $400 on a dentrator to bring your Nitrates from 55ppm to 50ppm, but I don't think the octo will care and I would gamble you wouldn’t notice the difference in algae growth. In my opinion you don’t need a dentrator.

out of curiosity Jon, have you ever used a denitrator or know a thing about them firsthand? in my personal experience your statement(s) could not be more inaccurate and i know my experiences are not unique not to mention the thousands of vodka dosers out there that would tell you differently. same principle, same results, different method. and $400? really? Joe could build one for $40 and you can buy the media now for $20. In a single specimen system i cant imagine why doing regular waterchanges would be preferable in any way to a denitrator.

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Actually work with a system that has a denitrator for Armco. It drips an effluent that is slightly lower in Nitrates then the tank, but the volume of water it has an effluence on makes little difference in the scheme of things. I also know someone in the club who spend a good chunk of money on a dentriator. He still has continual algae problem and could never grow stony corals. The pump failed and when he hooked a new one up to it, well it crashed his tank and he broke down his tank and sold off the parts, so he could go back to fresh water. I’m note saying this was entirely the fault of the equipment he purchased just sharing some of my experience.

Are you back tracking now Shawn? I thought you were all about water changes. Of course doing physical work would be less desirable then spending some money and not having to get off the couch, but will it keep the tank clean and the animal healthy is the question. I don’t think it alone will.

[quote=“logans_daddy, post:21, topic:2657”]
and $400? really?[/quote]

You act as if there is no such thing. Quick search on marine depot:

Korallin BioDenitrator w/ Eheim 1048 Pump
Price Range: $365.99 to $699.99

Deltec NFP Nitrate Filter
$815.99 to $1688.99

Korallin BioDenitrator w/o Pump
$329.99 to $649.99
Note this is without pump and media which ranges from $84.99 to $230.99 on the site.

So yes really some people spend that kind of money. $400 is a fairly cheap model looking at those numbers. Could be a fun little add on experiment for those with time for DIYS stuff just like a dark fuge, turf scrubber, and remote sand bed, but in my experience people who spend a lot of time and money on doing this sort of stuff don’t get ahead in the long run. Sure there are people that don’t do water changes and preach their results with their special secrets online, but eventually the balanced is tipped.

[quote=“logans_daddy, post:21, topic:2657”]
same principle, same results, different method.[/quote]

My response was directed towards the type of denitrators whose pricing were shown above and DIYS models that attempt to mimic them not vodka dosing.

As I stated before this is in my opinion based on my experience.

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[quote=“Gordonious, post:20, topic:2657”]
In my opinion denitrators would not be a good idea on this type of system. I think they would work in a large stable reef tank where you have 4ppm nitrates and want to get it closer to 1-0ppm.(of course using a good test kit) You can spend $400 on a dentrator to bring your Nitrates from 55ppm to 50ppm, but I don’t think the octo will care and I would gamble you wouldn’t notice the difference in algae growth. In my opinion you don’t need a dentrator. [/quote]

Are you saying that denitrators will only bring nitrates down 4ppm? Or is that the normal application? If a reef tank had nitrates at 50 ppm would a denitrator do more?

[quote=“Gordonious, post:20, topic:2657”]
We’ve had the talk about drilling 55g over and over again. [/quote]

Are you mad that I asked?

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lets say the effluent coming out of the denitrator is in fact only slightly (5ppm or so) lower in nitrate levels than the water going in. IF the unit is large enough and able to make the lower nitrate water faster than the tank itself is producing nitrates, eventually the “cleaner” water will, in fact, make its way back to the denitrator for another round. )mixed with other tank water, and dilluted of course) but my point is, as long as the unit is sized large enough, with enough flow to remove more nitrates than the system is producing… it will lower the level of nitrates in the tank indefinately until the trates reach zero.

right ???

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[quote=“fishguy9, post:24, topic:2657”]
IF the unit is large enough and able to make the lower nitrate water faster than the tank itself is producing nitrates, eventually the “cleaner” water will, in fact, make its way back to the denitrator for another round. )mixed with other tank water, and dilluted of course) but my point is, as long as the unit is sized large enough, with enough flow to remove more nitrates than the system is producing… it will lower the level of nitrates in the tank indefinately until the trates reach zero.[/quote]

As long as more nitrates aren’t being added than the denitrator is taking away… and ones big enough to handle an octo tank would probably be expensive. Octos not only are carnivores, but have skin that slough’s off periodically.

Not my direct expierence with octos, but that of a roommate who used to work at a fish store:
They would silicone the tank shut after every feeding. They can get out of any opening the size of their beak, which is small! All overflows have to flow slowly, so that the octo doesn’t get stuck in whatever you have covering the overflow to keep them from going over. They had filter pads in the back of the overflow, which had to be cleaned daily from mucus/food buildup.

As long as you plan it out well so that the octo doesn’t get down into the filtration, or any powerheads, or your living room, the general maintnance isn’t that bad. You need to keep the nitrates reasonable (ie. less than 100), but you shouldn’t have to worry about algae growth. Octos prefer low light, so even if there are nitrates/phosphates, there shouldn’t be enough light for algae in an octo tank.

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[quote=“icy1155, post:25, topic:2657”]
You need to keep the nitrates reasonable (ie. less than 100), but you shouldn’t have to worry about algae growth. [/quote]

My initial impression was that they needed exceptionally low nitrates, but I did some more reading today and this seems about right.

And you are correct on the lack of algae due to low lighting, my FOWLR has pretty high nitrates and no algae.

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Denitrators are rather small. they need a very slow flow through them to remain anerobic. The DIY units ive seen only flow at 3 drops per second. (like the small store bought unit Marty has been using on his lightly stocked 125) There are 20 drops per ml and 3785 ml per gallon, so that drip rate comes to less than 3.5 gallons of tank water denitrated per day. you have to set the drip rate to produce zero nitrates at the outlet. I think a big happy fuge would work better. and eat the phosphates too.

Just how big are these tankable Octo species anyway? are we talking 5 pounds or 5 ounces or 5 grams? can you keep two males or two females in the same tank? im sure you can keep a matched pair for breeding. so just how much will they eat and waste?

I like the cuttle fish idea better. they seem to breed well in captivity. and the species available for tanks are very small.
So are you going to keep one of these?

your gonna need a lot of sharks.

or one of the very small Ameloctopus?

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It drips an effluent that is slightly lower in Nitrates then the tank, but the volume of water it has an effluence on makes little difference in the scheme of things.
John, that explains your previous statement. The denitrator you happen to work with and are basing your statments on isnt working properly. You either need to dialback the effluent or re-cycle the denitrator. The effluent should be 0ppm at all times. Its likely that this particular denitrator isnt doing anything at all other than diverting water!
Are you back tracking now Shawn? I thought you were all about water changes.
Is this thread about reef tanks? Im pretty sure it was about super messy octos that i would guess have very little need for the benefits of frequent water changes other than waste removal. I think in this scenario frequent water changes would be unecessarily expensive and labor intensive. Building a large DIY denitrator would be affordable, stable, and more than sufficient and keeping NO3 in check IME.
The DIY units ive seen only flow at 3 drops per second. (like the small store bought unit Marty has been using on his lightly stocked 125)
The drip rates are completely dependent upon the size of the denitrator vs the bio load in the tank. You start at a very low drip rate when cycling a denitrator until you reach 0ppm NO3. You then slowly increase the driprate and the bacterial colony will grow to consume the available NO3. Depending on the bioload and the amount of surface area in the denitrator you could have a relative high drip rate. IME there is no "set" drip rate. It will be unique to every system.
IF the unit is large enough .... it will lower the level of nitrates in the tank indefinately until the trates reach zero. right?

yes. you sir understand how a denitrator works. its simply bacteria in a bottle. if the reactor is an appropriate size for the bioload it will reduce and maintain the NO3 at 0ppm.

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Just to add on, Im pretty sure every single method recommended would work just fine. Its likely that you will need to adapt your husbandry as you become experienced.

I know its not saltwater but i use a similar method to the one i recommended for an equally messy little creature. My red ear slider. Instead of a denitrator i use a VERY large DIY carbon reactor coupled with a drip plate and filter floss. Instead of doing frequent waterchanges i do quick siphons to remove large detritus with a $3 kersone siphon. Detritus will often accumulate in a small area and i can keep it spot cleaned in only a couple of minutes every couple of days. Water stays immaculate. I would imagine if you were quick enough with the siphon you wouldnt even have to add SW. You could just top it off and periodically adjust the salinity to save time.

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Do you think this would be okay?

I was thinking of a 55 gallon tank with rock enough to completely shade the bottom. The octo likes low light, so do you think a shelf would be sufficient? I’d like to grow macros on top (but obviously need light).

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That should be fine, as long as it has places to get out of the light, and the light isn’t to intense (aka reef lighting). If you just are trying to get some interesting macros to grow, it should be fine. You could always periodically throw in some grass shrimp from the bay. They could live in the macro until they became dinner.

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I was thinking of a PC light, nothing crazy- just enough to keep the macros going.

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Hey Joe. Is this Octo tank going to be a living room dislpay tank or a basement lab rat type tank? If its a basement tank, no frills, you could put a rubbermaid tub fuge a little above the 55, and feed it with a maxijet from the 55, and let the fuge overflow back to the 55. that would be a good denitrator. and you could also use my favorite denitrator, a deep plenum sand bed to passively denitrate. just keep it mostly open sand. a pile of rock in each corner for the octo to hide. and vacuum the top inch of the sand every week or so. I think it will work.

So what size Octo are you contemplating? thats the most important thing for waste load. it may be insignificant if you get the little type. Or a BIG problem if you get a 5 footer that fills the tank and runs up your food bill at the local fish market for pounds of fresh shrimp and crab and clams every day.

What size Octo are you getting?

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Good ideas, Ken. It will definately be more of a lab rat approach. I am looking at the dwarf caribbean, max size is around six inches (legs, not mantle). Octopus mercatoris, from what I’ve read they are a large egged variety, so if it worked out well, breeding and rearing would be a possibility.

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[quote=“Jocephus, post:34, topic:2657”]
Good ideas, Ken. It will definately be more of a lab rat approach. I am looking at the dwarf caribbean, max size is around six inches (legs, not mantle). Octopus mercatoris, from what I’ve read they are a large egged variety, so if it worked out well, breeding and rearing would be a possibility.[/quote]

Kel found one of those in her BC a while ago. Apparently it crawled in during a dive and made itself at home. Cute little buggers.

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Icy, if you are coming on here just to rub it in that you are in Florida and we are not- well, that’s just not right. If you’d like to scoop one up at low tide and send it my way, I’d be okay with it! PoM

I am going to try to set the tank up this weekend, and let it sit empty for a while. TONMO recommends letting it cycle for three months, if I am using established rock, do you think it’s really needed?

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Joe, not rubbing it in, just putting in how inquisitive these creatures are. If I knew where to reliably find one I would send ya one… that was the only one we have run across since we have been here. I know they’re here, just not where/how to find them. It’s hard enough finding a large octo since they can camouflage…no chance of finding one of these by sight.

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That is the main reason I want to get one. Always interested in the oddball stuff!

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bellamy, do some night dives.
and if you have a favorite spot you dive often, put a bottle somewhere you can locate it and it should be inhabited within a week

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[quote=“icy1155, post:37, topic:2657”]
Joe, not rubbing it in, just putting in how inquisitive these creatures are. [/quote]

Hehehe- How about some pictures from your explorations down there?