[quote=“reefman66, post:40, topic:4187”]
I still have fishes in my tank and I’m planning on keeping them. So that means I will continue feeding them and the corals as well.[/quote]
What specifically do you feed the corals? Perhaps without knowing it you have slipped into what some may consider an “ULNS”. 0 Nitrate and Phosphate can be dangerous in an aquarium without knowing what this means. Without a nutrient bank starved corals can bleach. Obviously you don’t have absolute 0 Nitrate and Phosphate, but just immeasurable amounts of each on your kits.
Adding some Amino acids and small sized zoo plankton may help the Montis color up, but speaking of Montis… Montipora capricornis, Montipora Danae, Montipora confusa? I’m pretty sure you meant that your Monti caps were growing very well and shading things.
[quote=“reefman66, post:40, topic:4187”]
The only thing that is upsetting me is my monti’s frags are fading and going away and I don’t know why. My acros and other corals are well, growing and coloring up as normal.[/quote]
I did a search on the last couple of pages to see if I could find the words Kalkwasser or Calcium reactor. How do you supplement and how much have you increased recently? If things are growing and you are just thinking about getting rid of some things, but haven’t done so yet your consumption has increased. If you haven’t been increasing Kalk, two part, reactor effluent, water changes… however you replace these, then your levels may have dropped and that could cause discoloration.
Coloration ultimately could be a TON of different things. Your iodine or potassium could be a little low in a recent salt bucket. Changed bulbs recently? That could shock “superman” Montis and the other fancy named ones and cause them to dull in color of a significant amount of time. Added any new montis to the tank? Next to zoanthids there are more pests that come in on Montis then most other corals in the hobby. I read a recent article in that free reef magazine they give out at LFS in which the author said they wouldn’t put any corals in their tank without several dips because of all the crap found on Montis now.
I did not proof read this, hopefully it makes sense and hopefully it helps a little.
Jon, I feed my SPS PhytoMax and ZooMax by Kent Marine. My fish gets variety of frozen, red nori and homemade stuff. I’m not sure if it’s some kind of chemical imbalance in my tank or what is going on, but the only corals that are having ill effect are the montis… Superman, Season’s Greetings, Blue Polyp Montipora Danae and other capricornis. The 2 large capricornis that I have are quite large and they are shading other things, but they are losing color as well. What type of Amino acids and what brand are you talking about?
I use Kalkwasser with my ATO and I have not increase or decrease anything in the ATO. I’ve been using this method for years with no ill effect. My PH and calcium is stable and have been. I also dose Kent marine Lugo’s solution, Seachem trace element and Seachem plus. I don’t dose any potassium, I don’t even know where to get it.
Now that you mention it I did recently change my 250W MH bulbs, but why is it only affecting the montis and not the acros or other LPS. They are all pretty much at the same level under the MH.
Ever seen images of a natural coral reef with Monti on top? Or is typically the stick like Acropora. (the latter) It could very well be that the new bulbs are what is causing the difference.
You see what I’m getting at though with the Calcium and Alk? If your corals are getting bigger and bigger and you say they are growing faster, but you are still adding the same amount you always have… It could be that your levels have dropped a bit. If you’ve used the same method for years… take a look at photos from years ago. Just as many coral polyps growing just as quickly? I would recommend picking up an Elos Mg kit as well and checking up on that.
Maybe what happened that caused your corals to lose a bit of color was a chimp farted which made a butterfly fly away and when that butterfly flapped it’s wings… Could be a Sextillion different things.(really big number)
Only mentioned Potassium and Iodine as I know they can directly affect the coloration of corals especially ones like you mentioned however it isn’t very likely those are two out of whack on in your particular system unless you have used a cheap synthetic salt mix recently. Either you can get from SeaChem, RedSea, Brightwell, or other companies, but again I doubt they have had a significant impact on things. I would not recommend dosing either.
I’m likely biased as can be, but I have CoralAmino from Brightwell Aquatics on my shelf. There is lots of reading out there about adding amino acids directly to the aquarium and other brands such as KZ, and I believe RedSea, carry them. I’d recommend Brightwell’s though. I add about 24 drops a day to my 120, but it is a much lower nutrient system then yours and is filled with corals over growing each other.
(I know I’m getting repetitive in a couple of places, but sometimes it’s best to hear things said in more than one way)
With the animal load I have, I don’t really notice any change in CA or Alk. I’ve been testing my water weekly and everything is stable. Also, I’ve been using IO reef crystal since I’ve been in this hobby and haven’t had any bad result from it. I know there others name brand salt on the market that might be better, but then agin little over budget. Attach is current tank video. Let me know wat you guys think.
The tank is looking pretty good. I guess the BPs are working. I only see some red cyano on the sand and what looks like some light sparse tufts of HA on some rocks. nothing like in your earlier vid of the sea hare munching away. Do you feel like you are making progress? You have lots of nice corals packed in there. they seem to be doing well. so a true biological solution to algae control is a must to clean out the spaces between them.
I got to say, i think my plenum is kicking in. the algae is disapearing from the frag rocks and sand. i put the old dirty sand down on the plenum first and covered it with a layer of new sand. so it has been digesting the nutrients in the lower layer and feeding the algae for a while. but i think it is reversing now. been 4 weeks since i installed the plenum. another month should tell. are we racing yet? Plenum vs Bio Pellets for going hairless.
Thanks Ken. Things are on the incline and looking better. My water parameter is on the spot where it should be. Of course some of my montis are basically un-saveable, bleach and turned brown don’t know why.
I’m guessing the BP are working, but don’t know for sure till all the HA are gone and will stay gone. The sea hare really help with the long strand of the HA as you saw on the video. There are still small stubble on rocks, I’m sure he’ll find it eventually.
OK, Ken we are at the starting line from today. With little help from HA mower we should be HA-less in no time.
Questions for you though, Ken. What is your surface area on top of your sand bed? are you elevating your rocks so that it will not lay on the sand bed? if so how are you doing it? have you heard such things as old tank syndrome with plenum? and can it be regenerated? Thanks Ken
Haven’t updated in a while. Since I have time I figure I need to update!
Tank is still running as usual. HA is still at bay. No overly growth; however, still have very small patches of HA in some places of the tank.
Still have cyano as well, in very small patches, but not allot.
Nitrate is still hanging at 5ppm. Hasn’t gone up nor down in the past 2 month, even after water changes. Phosphate is still at 0.
My blue milli acro has turned brown from its deep rich blue color for some reason. No other signs of deterioration. All other acros are well, growing and colored up nicely. LPS, soft and zoo are growing as normal, sprouting and budding.
my water parameters are as follows:
Did not test for Ammonia or Nitrite
Salinity is 1.025 refractor meter
Temp 82
Calcium 440 API test kit
Mag 1350 Salifert test kit
Alk 8 DKH API test kit
Phosphates 0 API test kit
Nitrates looking to be 5ppm on the API test kit, 5ppm on the Hagen/Nutrafin as well
Nitrate API
Phosphate
These are before and after pics of the problem areas. Pictures are the best that I can take with my Iphone.
You a the man A, great update. Let me give my :TWOCENTS
accurate PH?
Phosphate 0 with test kit doesn’t mean much. I used same test kit and it red 0ppm, after using hanna phosphate checker it was at .5 ppm, which it way to high to trouble free reef tank. HA is loosing ground, great. Still, acuracy is very important here. Maybe club can purchase one and share with members, or even rent for few bucks to cover the cost of reagent. https://hannachecker.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=53
Again great update and very good info for everyone. By looking at pics I really don’t think it’s a big problem because your reef looks great GolfC, but I would have to know and address it.
yo, A, both dunk and i have hanna phosphate checker. be glad to do a real test. my phosphate on the api always were about .5-0. zero was very infrequent and after a new batch of phosguard. but on 2 different hannas–his and mine–the reading was .02-.0, so phosphates on the api are really not to be trusted.
Thanks for your :TWOCENTS Rosti. As always I welcome your constructive criticism. As for PH, I have no idea. I’m just reading off the API PH test kit. As for as the end color goes, I’m guessing it’s around 8.3. However, Dunk tested my water with his apex probe for PH when I was at his house and I think it was reading 7.9 or 8.0 something like that. I think as long as my ALK stays high my PH should be high also.
Right now I’m in the market for an APEX JR and hopefully will get the other bus/probe later down the line. I am also looking into HANNA checker as well.
I’ll check out the Marinedepot forum and see what is all about. Thanks for your input Rosti.
[quote=“moliken, post:49, topic:4187”]
yo, A, both dunk and i have hanna phosphate checker. be glad to do a real test. my phosphate on the api always were about .5-0. zero was very infrequent and after a new batch of phosguard. but on 2 different hannas–his and mine–the reading was .02-.0, so phosphates on the api are really not to be trusted.[/quote]
Paul, I’ll take you up on your offer. I’ll get with you later on in the week. Thanks
Ho-Kay. it looks like you hit the wall with your current nutrient export systems. nitrates and HA still hanging in a modest levels. but not going to zero. By comparison my frag tank made a miraculous change this past week. as i said i sucked out the old filthy gravel about june 15 and installed a plenum. after a rinse in the old tank water to get the mud out i layed the2 inches of old aragonite on the plenum as the bottom layer. then 2 inches of clean new aragonite on top. 4 inch bed over the plenum. I have my frags and frag rock lying on the sandbed and some eggcrate on the bed too to hold plugs. well the plenum started to cook the dirty old sand on the bottom, and mostly fed the HA and cyano on the sand and frags and glass above. but started to thin it out a few weeks ago. i did a big water change 2-3 weeks ago, and picked most clumps of HA off the sand. but it still was there. but this past week, it all vanished. every bit of it. I guess the plenum finished digesting the nutrients in the burried dirty old sand. and then polished the tank. its great. clean white sand again. thats about 10 weeks.
I kind of figured it would take longer burrying the old sand. i just tested and nitrates are zero. near as i can tell. So plenum comes through again. I have been doing one other thing though to reduce phosphates. in addition to GFO in the filter i have been dosing small amounts of Lanthanum Chloride in a very slow drip. the past few weeks i put 1.5 ml of LaCl solution in 2 liters RO water, and slow drip to sump with a Brine shrimp pepsi bottle hatchery and an air valve to drip 1 drop every 10 seconds. But the plenum took care of the nitrates.
What do you think? If John drops by with his camera, he can get some picks of the frag tank. its looking pretty good.
It seems you are correct Ken, with hitting the wall with the current nutrient export systems. And you won the race!!
I had NO3 down to zero two month ago, but it been steady with 5ppm since. You think my plenum is old and need to be refresh? if so how do I refresh it? can the sand bed get old and not work any more? I have this plenum up for at least 8 years and have never add any new sand.
What does Lantanum Chloride do? some sort of calcium additive?
I would love to see some pics of your frag tank or your setup for that matter. John stop by Ken get some pics of his tanks and frag tank!
Reefman, yes you can bring an old plenum bed back to life with a couple real good syphonings of the mud and detritis out of the sand. I forgot you had one. but if its 8 years old, and you have only done light vacuuming, theres probably a lot of mud in it. my 12 year old 75 plenum was like that. a couple good cleanings, as deep as i can get, seems to have got it running again. i moved as much rock and coral out of the way to get to the sand bed, and the back corners. then put it back. getting the fine talc like muc out helps it breath .
oops, my bad. thats Lanthanum Chloride. Its a phosphate binder. The same stuff Joe yaiello uses on his 20,000 gallon reef tank at Atlantis Marine World. its probably the prime ingredient in most of the instant liquid Phos reducers on the market now. Lanthanum binds with any phosphate to make an insoluable Lanthanum phosphate and either gets removed by the protein skimmer or settles to the bottom, where you can syphon it out with detritis. it has to be used carefully. adding too much at one time to a high phos system will cloud the water like milk with precipatate which can harm fish and coral. ergo the real dilute, ultra slow drip. I bought a pint online from a hot tub and spa supply store. thats what its sold for. de-phosphating spas. the phosphate messes up the ozonators. so i bought the same brand as Joe. SeaKlear Spa Phosphate remover. because that is known to be only LaCl. in the past year, using it off and one, i ve only use 4 ounces of it . Joe uses a gallon every 3-4 months on the 20,000 gallon reef. with hundreds of large fish/
I will try to vacuum as much as I can this weekend. But it’s very hard for me to get to the back of the tank, well see.
Not to be off the subject of bioplastics or pellets. I added an additional 200ml to the reactor last month. That brings up to little bit over the recommended usage of 600ml for 120 gal/100ml per 25 gal. However, it still haven’t gone down to 0ppm in NO3 within the month that I’d add the additional plastics. I figure that with the plenum sand bed and bioplastics running it should be down to 0 by now. I’m not sure where the disconnect is. If anyone have a clue please let me know.
by far no expert but i heard that to achieve zero on both you need a balance on both if you have .2 phos and 0 trate the phos will remain and visa versa so they both have to be of equal amount. this may only apply to a scrubber but not sure. I read on reef central that they had low phos and had to feed food with phow to bring trates to 0. again not 100% but we can test I have salifert trate test and hanna phos. also have all the other test we never use lol
Reefman, i forgot to say im still dosing kalwasser with vinegar in it too. that is a carbon source just like the bio pellets. I’m still using 2 cups vinegar in a 6 gallon bucket with 4 rounded tablespoons of lime. i drip about a quart a night per 80-100 gallon systems. so thats what? 24 quarts in the bucket with 16 oz vinegar, is 32 Tablespoons vinegar so thats about 4 Teaspoons of vinegar per night per tank system in the qt of kalwasser. Oh , and i have a small fuge in the sump.
But i have been dripping the lime vinegrette and LaCl all the time i had the HA/cyano plague with the old 2 inches of sand on the bottom setup. So i have to say, the new plenum is the only change, and made the difference.
My fuge still gets gunked up with some slime, but i net it out a couple times a week. Do you clean your fuge? That is removing nutrients too. eventually when the system comes into a low nutrient level balance, the fuge gets real clean too. no gunk just nice shiny prolifera.
Well, just got back from re-checking my water parameter tonight with a better tester, Thanks Tim.
Come to find out I do still have some traces of PO4/.09 ppm in the water column and I pretty sure in the rocks as well. NO3 still show 5-7 ppm and Alk shows 7.6 dkh, little low for my tank. Normally at 8 or 9 dkh.
I haven’t been using any PO4 absorbent material since I figure the bioplastics will take that down as well, but now it seems that I might need to just to see if I can bring the PO4 down to 0 ppm.
As for NO3 with the bioplastics. I still don’t know why the pellets haven’t bring the NO3 down to less than 5 ppm. I guess I need to do a little bit more research.
These are the water test result.
Hanna checker Selifert API
PO4/ .09 ppm 0 ppm
NO3/ 5-7 ppm 5 ppm
ALK/ 7.6 dkh 8-9 dkh
I am not trying to get you off course, but think if there is any way you can incorporate algae turf scrubber. After setting it up 2 month ago I am amazed of its power. For first time my phosphate reading .02 ppm, all that with GFO/carbon is not being changed for month now. I used to change cup of each every week AND I no longer remove algae from the system, everything goes back to feed tangs. Just clean scrubber once a week. Something to think about. Oh yes, and nitrates at 1-2 ppm. with addition of powder blue and school of 6 pj cardinals.
