aber, if you calibrate you hydrometer so that its .004 off then every time you measure you can compensate for the failure by adding it the difference. Im not saying i shouldn’t get a refractometer, i need it. But there is no comparison to sticking your finger in the wind as the analysis you would get what be categorical data. an anemometer would give you qualitative data … where as a hydrometer and a refractometer both are quantitative so there is correlation between the data… you can compare number easier… so if you know your hydrometer is off by .004 then you know when it reads 1.021 then its really 1.025… just playing devils advocate…
I also dont see your comparison with dog tazing… but anyhow, i see what your saying and i agree… i want a refractometer, but money dosent permit me to buy one, and as long as i have a working method now it can wait …
[quote=“Gordonious, post:17, topic:2145”]
I don’t have patients for the little floating glass hydrometers. Stop mixing water, kill the pumps, let things settle down, get down to eye level or when you are mixing things in a brute when you can’t see through try to put your hands on it roughly where the water level is and don’t let it slip…. Blah. Refract= couple of drips, look at the light, clean off. Three quick steps
Matter of opinion I suppose. [/quote]
well its pretty easy to read in my setup, you’ve seen my sump is baffled so the return section is pretty calm.
[quote=“TimH07, post:20, topic:2145”]
you realize these animals see less than a half of a % per month of salinity difference and only 1 degree temp swing in a 3 month period?
common reefers think, oh its ok, they are hardy… hell no, would you taze a dog daily and say " oh its ok, they can survive it"?[/quote]
Just google it to find more information. There are much daily and seasonal temp. variation on the reefs. I am not saying that means we should strive for large temp swings, but small daily variations do not harm the corals or fish.
I don’t think we are really helping new reefers when we add statements like the one above referring to them as common??? I won’t say anything about the dog analogy except to say it was a poor choice. Please read over what you have written before you post it. We should be encouraging new reefers. I don’t think marchingband disagrees that refractometers are best, and I bet he will own one down the road. What he was saying is if you check your hydrometer against a properly calibrated refractometer you can mark your swing arm so that you will know how much to adjust your results. I have done this before and it is a good fix until one can afford the better instrument.
I have two swing arm hydrometers that indicate 3 PPT difference salinity. so i just use the high one and mix to 1.028. And like Ellen’s article, there was a reef study i posted a while ago that measured the hourly, daily and seasonal temp and salinity swings on a reef. big range. they found that the average 75 gallon reef tank was more stable than the wild reef top slopes and lagoons. so dont sweat the small stuff. work on good husbandry , filtration, cleaning instead.
i did read (in advanced aquarist online mag i think…) a test that was done on hydrometers and the results were suprising nonetheless. guy bought 10 of em. from around the country, just to ensure they were different batches and whatnot…) and every one of them read exactly the same out of the box. not a single degree difference. now, something can be said about how long do they stay stable. noone knows. so check it against another or against a refractometer or whatever u want to check it against occasionally. but i think a lot of people give these things a very tarnished image. its all i use. and my tank is fine. do what u want, buy a refractometer if thats what u wanna do. but i dont think its anywhere NEAR necessary to keep a reef tank.
jmho…
and ellen is dead on. swings r natural in the wild. not that we encourage swings in our tanks, but its not detrimental if it happens. i feel more damage is done, most of the time, trying too hard to lock every parameter in a tank to 0 fluctuation.
No such thing as exactly. Might be exactly the same as one scientist predicted was the world average, but things fluctuate and change. Sorry call it OCD, but I try to urge people not to use words like, “perfect” or “exact”. Might have also been all those PITA professors that were always on me about similar stuff.
Now that I typed that I finished reading the post and I believe Ellen said it best. I believe it was Chris that once posted a similar article by Dr. Shimek on the topic of temperature variation. I agree keeping things rock steady is not always the best and actually I never do.
(Note: With my tanks with Xenia things fluctuate(1.024-1.028 usually), but VERY slowly. Salinity slowly raises as I don’t top off then I drip a gallon of water a day into the system and it changes the salinity .001 a day and bring it up over several days. Of course this slow correction is not required at all, but I believe it helps. I aim for 1.025, but don’t get upset when it is not there.)
sorry to disagree and it seems im the ass here all the time, but the pacific has changed 1.5 “salinity units” in 10,000 years. the salinity is one of the slowest to change all across the ocean.
and i misspoke on the 3 month temp thing, i know it shifts more than that, i even posted the fiji temp charts recently i was typing and watching tv at the same time…
i believe they are talking about averages, and over the last 10k years the avg salinity has dropped by 1.5 units… that dosent mean that during a year the levels dont range more drastically…
He is talking about the statistics of it and how the data has shown an overall trend. thus they are averaging and drawling conclusions. this data doesnt show that its only changes that much it says it has had a slowly downward trend over the last 10,000 years.
[quote=“TimH07, post:32, topic:2145”]
sorry to disagree and it seems im the ass here all the time, but the pacific has changed 1.5 “salinity units” in 10,000 years. the salinity is one of the slowest to change all across the ocean.
and i misspoke on the 3 month temp thing, i know it shifts more than that, i even posted the fiji temp charts recently i was typing and watching tv at the same time…[/quote]
Hey Tim. I certainly think we can agree to disagree without making either of us look bad in any way. That was not my intention at all. I simply thought the tone of your post was off considering that Marchingband is a new member. Though he has a lot to learn he is definitely no slacker in doing his research. He sure has impressed me with his desire to major in chemistry… this will come in handy in this hobby.
[quote=“Marchingbandjs, post:33, topic:2145”]
i believe they are talking about averages, and over the last 10k years the avg salinity has dropped by 1.5 units… that dosent mean that during a year the levels dont range more drastically…
He is talking about the statistics of it and how the data has shown an overall trend. thus they are averaging and drawling conclusions. this data doesnt show that its only changes that much it says it has had a slowly downward trend over the last 10,000 years.
correct me if im wrong.[/quote]
I do believe you are correct about the data in the article.
How much the salinity varies on a reef depends on its location, but I am sure it does vary on a regular basis. I have read several posts from marine biologists discussing this, but I am too lazy to do the research tonight.
hey ellen, i agree with you, i come off too harsh i guess, i would have every reefer buy nothing but the best after my experiences… and that is kind of the point i’d like to pass, allthough not as diligently.
i’ve spoken to some reefers that are completely reckless and kind of piss me off and i want all to succeed in reefkeeping, thats all, if i can convince one to buy the right tool then i’ve helped, maybe not politically but the end result is the key.
new test results tonight
salinity 31 ppt hydrometer (1.0229 sg)
refractometer 35 ppt (1.026sg)
you cant simply adjust your reading assuming its off by .025, the only thing consistent about a hydrometer is they are inconsistent.