would you recommend putting a check valve in return? basically for loss of power situations so it doesn’t siphon.
also, if so what size check valve would you go with as to not restrict flow?
if you don’t recommend using a check valve, how do you combat the loss of water from your main tank? I realize it only siphones down to the outlet of my pipes but trying to eliminate splash when the electric comes back on.
i’m using 3/4 cpvc as my piping just because that’s whats in my house and I have plenty of parts to use, any thoughts on that?
I know before that a lot of people don’t believe in using check valve due to failures. Most that are made now a days are pretty well made. I know some people in our club use the Georg Fischer Wye check valve. I myself use the swing check valve true union. I like the true union because I can take it apart the clean it or replace if I need to (of course you have to put a valve before the check valve to do that) and I believe the Georg Fischer Wye check valve can do the same as well. Below are the links to BRS where I got mine and I think others got their GFW there as well.
If you don’t want to use the check valve. you would have to put a hole somewhere under the return to brake the siphon on the return and of course room in your sump to accommodate all the water that will be lost and draining down into the sump. Only way to eliminate the splash when the electric comes back on is to point the return pipe down.
My opinion any PVC or CPVC will work as long as it will fit all other fittings.
Have you test and see how much the water is lost when you turn off the power to the tank? will it overflow the sump?
Hope this help. I’m sure others have other opinion.
[quote=“reefman66, post:2, topic:7483”]
I know before that a lot of people don’t believe in using check valve due to failures. Most that are made now a days are pretty well made. I know some people in our club use the Georg Fischer Wye check valve. I myself use the swing check valve true union. I like the true union because I can take it apart the clean it or replace if I need to (of course you have to put a valve before the check valve to do that) and I believe the Georg Fischer Wye check valve can do the same as well. Below are the links to BRS where I got mine and I think others got their GFW there as well.[/quote]
seems like the swing check valve is a lot cheaper might have to go that route especially if your using it with no issues. I kno cheaper is not always better. what size would be sufficient ? 3/4 for 3/4 inch pipe or go alittle bigger to alow for restriction? or are these made for very little restriction?
[/quote]Have you test and see how much the water is lost when you turn off the power to the tank? will it overflow the sump? [/quote]
it fills the sump up about half way so we are good there
Just guessing but looks like they are glue on pvc is that what yours is reefman?
I don’t recommend check valves personally. My school of thought is I don’t add anything that would restrict the return - or especially the drain. Only one exception is to add a valve at the return so you can dial back flow if you need to.
A said it best - drill a small hole somewhere in the return (I usually do it at the inside elbow where the return connects to the lockline). I also usually put a small piece of sponge to eliminate the water making the splashing noise when it shoots out of that hole too.
One thing to consider though, if you have a standard durso style overflow like most folks, the display will continue to drain to the point where the durso becomes exposed. That’s usually why the display will have a few inches of water drained out during a power loss. You can remedy this by raising the durso, but that’s a hairy situation because you’ll have more water rising in the overflow and more of a chance of flood if something were to go wrong.
Me - I leave the durso alone at the recommended height in the overflow, and I point the locklie return toward the back wall so when the power comes back on, it’s hitting the back wall of the tank and trickles down. It doesn’t eliminate the splashing but it helps.
[quote=“Gotasplinter, post:4, topic:7483”]
Just guessing but looks like they are glue on pvc is that what yours is reefman?[/quote]
Yes, they are. Just like regular PVC and using PVC glue.
As for the size of the valve. Just use what ever size of the pipe you are using.
I have a large basement sump. I have plenty of room if the power does go out. However I have a check valve on the feed just above my pumps output back to the tank. I did have the tank siphon until the airlock broke. I put the check vale on because when I had a quick off and on power surge the weight of the water in the pipe would spin the pump impeller when the water would start to drain back.and this would cause the pump to spin backward and over heat. So that’s why I have a swing check from lowes. I didn’t get the glue in type I got the compression by compression so I can service or replace it very easily. I would never put any thing on the drain line from the tank to the sump. You always want that as free as possible with no chances of blockage. Hope this helps. Oh yea if you look at the inside of the swing check just make sure the hole is same or close to the same diameter as the pipe your using.
Just like to say thanks to everyone for your replies, decided to go without the check valve for now, can easily be added later but thought id post some pics of the new plumbing and new sump just to show finished project, nothing special really. any thoughts on anything I might need to change would be appreciated
Looks great Lee. As simple as it gets. I do have questions. What’s the purpose of those rocks on the right side? rubble tower for biological filtration like a wet dry? are they all submerged in water or no? The splash from those rocks don’t splash above the sump and on the back wall? how about pics of the DT? love to see it. Thanks for sharing.
I have a question.why does it look like you used cpvc? It looks like it’s smaller then the fittings on the bottom of the tank? The smaller pipe is not going to flow as much as the correct pipe size. Another thing you might want to chandler is not use hard pipe from the pump to the tank. I would use spa flex to help with. Oise and to make things easier to work with. But looks good otherwise. I would just change the pipe to regular pvc and get the proper flow. Especially the return pipe.
Why is the drain pipe split into two pipes at the very end? That setup is going to restrict the flow from the overflow in the tank, IMO. Simply because when the flow reaches the tee, it causes the water to backup some.
[quote=“reefman66, post:9, topic:7483”]
Looks great Lee. As simple as it gets. I do have questions. What’s the purpose of those rocks on the right side? rubble tower for biological filtration like a wet dry? are they all submerged in water or no? The splash from those rocks don’t splash above the sump and on the back wall? how about pics of the DT? love to see it. Thanks for sharing.[/quote]
yes exactly that’s why the rocks are piled up for filtration, do you advise against piling them up? and they are not all submerged in water only the bottom rocks. no splash as of yet. DT? guessing the tank? im a little rusty on all this 
[quote=“beadlocked450r, post:10, topic:7483”]
I have a question.why does it look like you used cpvc? It looks like it’s smaller then the fittings on the bottom of the tank? The smaller pipe is not going to flow as much as the correct pipe size. Another thing you might want to chandler is not use hard pipe from the pump to the tank. I would use spa flex to help with. Oise and to make things easier to work with. But looks good otherwise. I would just change the pipe to regular pvc and get the proper flow. Especially the return pipe.[/quote]
yes I used 3/4 cpvc because that’s what I use in my house was just readily available. seems to flow good so far. would I see problems with flow from the get go or down the road?
[quote=“houndsbayman, post:11, topic:7483”]
Why is the drain pipe split into two pipes at the very end? That setup is going to restrict the flow from the overflow in the tank, IMO. Simply because when the flow reaches the tee, it causes the water to backup some.[/quote]
the sump is designed that way for 2 socks but I just didn’t use 2 socks. is there a better way to split it up eliminating the Tee? since ill most likely change it over to pvc this weekend
something else we’ve noticed is a small amount of bubbles. thinking maybe from the new piping only reason is it wasn’t there before all pipe is glued so shouldn’t be any air any ideas?
[quote=“Gotasplinter, post:12, topic:7483”]
[quote=“reefman66, post:9, topic:7483”]
Looks great Lee. As simple as it gets. I do have questions. What’s the purpose of those rocks on the right side? rubble tower for biological filtration like a wet dry? are they all submerged in water or no? The splash from those rocks don’t splash above the sump and on the back wall? how about pics of the DT? love to see it. Thanks for sharing.[/quote]
yes exactly that’s why the rocks are piled up for filtration, do you advise against piling them up? and they are not all submerged in water only the bottom rocks. no splash as of yet. DT? guessing the tank? im a little rusty on all this :)[/quote]
From what I read and understood is that rubble tower are usually use for is bubble trap and also help with biological filtration. Unlike bioballs pores in LR are better due to high flow passing through them. Not sure if all has to be submerge or not. I l know there’s some reading on RC about it.
What is your nitrate level like?
DT is Display Tank or your main tank. How bout some pics?
[quote=“Gotasplinter, post:15, topic:7483”]
something else we’ve noticed is a small amount of bubbles. thinking maybe from the new piping only reason is it wasn’t there before all pipe is glued so shouldn’t be any air any ideas?[/quote]
You mean bubbles in your main tank correct? I see you have a sponge before the return pump. Are there space between the sponge where bubbles from that skimmer gets through and into the partition where the pump is?
Or small hole somewhere in the return piping connections?
1 First. The flow might be good to your eye but the pipe size being smaller then it should will restrict flow. Which could make the pump work harder to do the same job. And that means the pump could be using more power then it should, could also cause premature failure.
2 Second, the drain into the sump should never reduce in size from what ever the drain is on the tank. So if the tank drain is 1" pvc you should keep it that way. The overflow flow of the tank is designed for a maximum amount of water from top to bottom. Yes cpvc will work as it is currently working now. The issues we see are the sizing of the pipes. And if your not going to use the second sock don’t use the tee. Filter all of the water going through the sump. This will help with your bubbles.
3 Third, you say you have bubbles, I’m assuming they are in the tank? This is normally because the bubbles don’t have enough time to pop before leaving your sump.from what I can see in your sump picture you might need anther baffle or two to give bubbles time to pop.
[quote=“reefman66, post:16, topic:7483”]
What is your nitrate level like?[/quote]
Nitrates are very high! in the red doing water changes to get them down basically this tank has been sitting idle with live rock and some snails and crabs, no sump, just the live rocks as filtration and some pumps circulating the water, neglected basically everything is good except the nitrates now that we have disturbed everything we are getting an algae bloom
[quote=“reefman66, post:17, topic:7483”]
You mean bubbles in your main tank correct? I see you have a sponge before the return pump. Are there space between the sponge where bubbles from that skimmer gets through and into the partition where the pump is?
Or small hole somewhere in the return piping connections?[/quote]
yes bubbles in the main tank! doesnt seem to be anywhere bubbles can get through but i guess you never kno. when i replace the piping this weekend i guess then we will see if it might be a small hole in the piping
[quote=“beadlocked450r, post:18, topic:7483”]
3 Third, you say you have bubbles, I’m assuming they are in the tank? This is normally because the bubbles don’t have enough time to pop before leaving your sump.from what I can see in your sump picture you might need anther baffle or two to give bubbles time to pop.[/quote]
ugh do you think the placement of the baffles matter or spacing as long as they are after the skimmer? oh and yes very fine small bubbles in main tank
Just like to say thanks again to you guys for all your help and input
Here’s a short video of the tank might be able to see the bubbles at the end
