Ihave a 5 head branching hammer and the last three days i have only two of the heads out and the other three havent expanded at all
So is this normal or would picture help you guys out on this one ?
Pictures always help.
Has anything changed in the tank? Redirect a power-head by chance? Parameters?
When I had hammers/frogspawn, they would often get irritated and close up for a day or two. Usually it was a hermit or my clown, but if you have moved a powerhead, that could absolutely do it. Give them a day or two. If the tissue starts to recede, then you have problems.
As said before too much flow could easily be trouble. I would also ask how long your tank has been running now and what sort of salt you are using. If your tank is still sort of cycling and isn’t too mature it may not be ready for stony corals like that. If your salt is a low calcium salt and your levels are off it may also affect stony corals negatively.
Is it near any other corals? 95% of the time or more if there is coral warefare Euphyllia(common name Hammer) will win, but there are some that will give it a run for its money.
LPS like that often times will seem fine for a week or two, but after a little while start to go downhill. It is often due to rough handling/shipping which leads to an infection. This is particularly the case in corals the fill with a large amount of water such as Euphyllia. I have often times bought these corals as they seem to be on their way out and simply dip them in Revive from TLF and put them into a healthy system and they recover.
Hope it turns around for you.
Where to begin. KK yes i moved the power head but it was moved up higer so it got less water flow then it had . My nitrate is at 20ppm the salt i use is instant ocean the tank is over 3 mths old now So what i did tonight was took it out and diped it for 15 mins just incase there was some parsite in there bugging it
nitrates should be 0, theres your problem.
[quote=“TimH07, post:6, topic:2689”]
nitrates should be 0, theres your problem.[/quote]
Not necessarily so. Parameters are one thing, but to be honest Nitrates of 20ppm (keep in mind are subjective based on the lighting the test is being reviewed under) aren’t that bad for an LPS coral. Generally if nitrates / ammonia / other parameters are to be blamed then all heads of the coral would be affected.
Generally speaking I have found that if it is just 1 head on a multi-headed colony it is usually something else, like flow, a shadow from the cross brace or other heads, chemical warfae from other corals nearby etc.
When I had hammers/frogspawn, they would often get irritated and close up for a day or two. Usually it was a hermit or my clown, but if you have moved a powerhead, that could absolutely do it.
Not necessarily so. Parameters are one thing, but to be honest Nitrates of 20ppm
Couldnt agree more with both of these statments. Ive got a frogspawn with about 40+ heads and whenever one or two is closed up its almsot always because of a snail or hermit. Also the biggest mistake ive made with LPS in the past and especially Euphyllia is too much flow. I had an amazing torch colony for years that i lost almost over night because i made an adjustment to one powerhead that indirectly hammered the colony. The strangest thing is that it never retracted or tried to protect itself. Samething with my large frogspawn. When i put it in my 265g i had to turn off 3 out of 4 powerheads to keep it happy.
As far as having 0ppm NO3 with LPS being necessary all i can say is it hasnt been my experience. In fact, for me LPS has always done much better at a higher NO3 level than lower. I agree with Craig and would say that 10-20ppm is probably better than 0ppm in most situations. Heck, i dont even keep 0ppm NO3 in my SPS system. They thrive at 10-15ppm but can quickly show stress at anything 20 or over. All i will say is this hobby got a LOT easier for me the day i stopped worrying about my numbers and focused instead on consitency.
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:8, topic:2689”]
…that indirectly hammered the colony.[/quote]
no pun attended right Shawn?
20ppm isn’t too high however I would argue that all hobbyist starting a tank should strive to achieve 0ppm to start with especially if there tank is lightly stocked and feeding is low. If a beginning hobbyist with a new young tank never reaches below 5ppm there may be some issues with filtration or general husbandry like water changes. If not addressed the tank may continue to grow pesky algaes, be unsightly, not grow desirable coralline, and many other issues. This is my opinion. Some may argue, but also keep in mind if a hobby grade test kit like API or Red Sea shows 20ppm it may in fact be much higher.
Regular old Instant Ocean is a salt decided for Fish Only systems. You want to get your hands on a Reef salt which contains more calcium.(as well as other things) I personally use and would recommend Tropic Marin Pro, but Brightwell’s NeoMarine is pretty popular right now and there are many others available as well that are not horrible. Biggest thing is to get a reef salt.
even instant ocean makes reef crystals… usually the same price as the regular.
[quote=“Gordonious, post:9, topic:2689”]
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:8, topic:2689”]
…that indirectly hammered the colony.[/quote]
no pun attended right Shawn?
20ppm isn’t too high however I would argue that all hobbyist starting a tank should strive to achieve 0ppm to start with especially if there tank is lightly stocked and feeding is low. If a beginning hobbyist with a new young tank never reaches below 5ppm there may be some issues with filtration or general husbandry like water changes. If not addressed the tank may continue to grow pesky algaes, be unsightly, not grow desirable coralline, and many other issues. This is my opinion. Some may argue, but also keep in mind if a hobby grade test kit like API or Red Sea shows 20ppm it may in fact be much higher.
Regular old Instant Ocean is a salt decided for Fish Only systems. You want to get your hands on a Reef salt which contains more calcium.(as well as other things) I personally use and would recommend Tropic Marin Pro, but Brightwell’s NeoMarine is pretty popular right now and there are many others available as well that are not horrible. Biggest thing is to get a reef salt. [/quote]
after an entire 5gallon bucket of brightwell’s salt, i’ll tell you this, i wont buy another bucket of it. their calcium and alk and mag levels are off by at least 15% of what they report on their buckets, i use salifert for testing all inside the expiration dates and over batches. for example they claim 416 calcium but 12 tests via salifert confirm their salt is at 375 CA.
i’ve tried brightwells products and from the salt mix to their 2 part calcium/alk buffer system that you can pick up and hear the “sludge” slide from the bottom to the top, i’ll be looking for other venues for reef products. some may see this as critical, but i was optimistic and brightwell failed to deliver.
I’ve been using the good ole rot gut MEI Crystal Sea MarineMix salt for about 10 years now. Yes, even though it always tests way low on calcium and magnesium, but not bad on alk and ph, I’ve got great big bags of Mag Flake, Epsom salt, and C-Force or Prestone Driveway Heat to dump in and bump it up to my liking. YUMM!!
Plus a little dose of Tropic Marin trace elements, or SeaChem Reef Plus to boost the vitamins/minerals just in case, seems to work pretty good too.
Just for the flip side. I’m a low baller. But, Salt choice is a big personal preference.
What ever makes you be happy, and don’t worry.
I still think it costs you more Ken. If you add in the costs of the test kits to see how far off the salt is from what they say it is for each new box.(and it probably would be better to test every mix of salt as there may be inconsistency in the box if it is not thoroughly mixed) Also take into account you don’t test for Iodine, Strontium, Phosphates, Nitrates, and probably 20 other things that could possibly be off. If they claim to have different calcium then they do, who knows about the stuff they know people won’t be testing for. Also when you feel you have to add Tropic Marin trace elements and SeaChem Reef Plus just in case because you aren’t sure your salt has what it needs that is an additional expense as well.
- Cost of salt + cost of 4 test kits + costs of buffers + cost of trade elements + time it takes to do the tests add the buffers and the elements + stress of not really knowing what your adding
Even if you are retired and don’t factor in the cost of the time it is still more expensive in my mind for a far inferior product.
. If the salt was bad or the calcuim or the carbonate alkalinity and ph etc was bad i would have a issue with more then one subject here. My leather/ lobo /mushrooms/ zoo /kenya are doing great alll my shrimp are molting fine with no issues. Now i realize what the salt lacks andike a good boy i had calcium and alkalinity to the tank i add iodide when shrimp molt and add trace element supplements so i guess me losing this lps is a learning exp for me
[quote=“jjhanson, post:14, topic:2689”]
My leather/ lobo /mushrooms/ zoo /kenya are doing great[/quote]
I realize many hobbyist use “Lobo” to talk about “Lobophylia” and odds are that is what you mean, but just wanted to make sure that is what you were talking about. ORA sells a Loco Lobo which is a Lobophyton. One is a stony coral the other a leather.
- Cost of salt + cost of 4 test kits + costs of buffers + cost of trade elements + time it takes to do the tests add the buffers and the elements + stress of not really knowing what your addingIm not sure i get your point about the test kits. When i supplemented i didnt have to test anymore than without dosing. I think everyone should test regularly regardless of the type of salt used or whether or not they dose/supplement. However, wholeheartedly agree with your overall point. Switching to a quality salt was one of the best things i have ever done. I dont think for a second that anything is wrong with salt mixes like Instant Ocean nor do i believe its necessary to pay $100/bucket of salt. But i think Jon is absolutely right. If a manufacturer is not putting in the correct amount of Ca and Mg what makes us think they are making any attempt at putting the necessary trace minerals in the mix? I think there are a LOT of ways to save money in this hobby without impacting our results but i feel with some things(lights, skimmer, powerheads, salt) you get what you pay for in most cases. Although i believe that its still much cheaper to supplement a cheaper salt mix than buy a quality mix i couldnt agree with Jon more that its probably not worth the time, effort, and risk to stability. A good salt just makes life so much easier IME!
20ppm isn't too high however I would argue that all hobbyist starting a tank should strive to achieve 0ppm+1 Having NSW paramaters is almost never a bad ideal and should certainly always be used as a baseline especially with NO3, PO4, Amonia, etc
no pun attended right Shawn?right. i promise! lol
I have a routine amount of mag to add to the new salt water mix. its always the same. the salt is consistant, just low. and i dose lots of Ca and Alk daily. one test after a water change and adjust. then just add my usual amount daily. test every couple weeks. pretty stable. in those params.