We have a 65gal tank with a 20gal sump with an ASM Mini-G skimmer. We have about six to seven pounds of live rock rubble in the sump, as well as a fist full of chaeto macro algae, not to mention the 1.5 inches of live sand and close to 30 pounds of live fiji rock in the aquarium itself. When we first filled the tank, we used RO/DI micron & carbon filtered, ozonated water. The tank is about two weeks old, it cycled within the first week with a few chromis and a hermit crab, and is sustaining all of our fish, inverts, and corals just fine. We were given all sorts of different opinions, but we were assured multiple times that out parameters were fine, and we could start adding more livestock other than our five chromis and hairy hermit crab. But we’re experiencing another spike of nitrite after adding more fish and corals. We did a 12% water change about an hour ago, and the nitrite/nitrate showed virtually no change. Is it a simple matter of waiting and testing, or do we need to do another water change tomorrow?
Also, should we turn our overflow into a deep sand bed? Do you feel as though that will help us get rid of our nitrate problem? It’s a good sized corner overflow. And if we do decide to make a DSB, will the particulate sand in the water bother the fishes’ gills if it gets stirred up to much?
Any advice would be appreciated.
What numbers are you getting for any parameters you test for?
list anything you have. you’re probably doing fine, just two weeks in, i wouldn’t expect much yet. Sounds like a great start :
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and i’m not a DSB guy, but sand in the overflow box sounds like a mess, and a detritus trap to me. I think there is a minimum sq inch requirement for a true DSB to be functioning anyway.
There are as many opinions out there as there are tanks. So that said, screw the people that suggest you can hurry up the cycle with magic potions. The average nitrogen cycle in a new tank even with some live rock added (because the nay sayers will say its loaded with bacteria, much of which in fact dies when you add it to the uncycled tank) takes 6-8 weeks.
Adding fish before this is a terrible idea and adding 5 is worse, the bio-load is too much for the cycle. I’m guessing you have the cheapest test kits available… not that you would be cheap but most starting out buy the cheapest unknowingly as its whats most commonly available. API kits are notorious for being inaccurate on readings so you can’t really trust those.
You are where you are at this point so the best thing to do is be ready for water changes if things look bleak, you may not have horrible issue other than some algae but its best to be ready for anything. Also a rule of thumb for reef tanks is at least 1-2 lbs of rock per gallon, I have a 75g tank with 55g sump and I have 163 lbs of rock. It provides more porous surface area for bacteria to grow.
[quote=“TimH07, post:3, topic:4655”]
I’m guessing you have the cheapest test kits available… not that you would be cheap but most starting out buy the cheapest unknowingly as its whats most commonly available. API kits are notorious for being inaccurate on readings so you can’t really trust those.[/quote]
I’m cheap, and the API kits have never done me wrong. And a big thing with testing is, after a while, and key here is “routine testing” you’ll have an idea of where the test will come out before you even do it. If its not close to where you think it should be… then re-test, triple test… call a friend, visit the LFS… any of these before making a huge adjustment to any parameter.
But Tim is right on with the patience and live rock/ tank cycle. If “live rock” is still curing, and its in an aquarium, it will pretty much determine the waste levels until all the “die off” works its way out. Even if you had pristine fully live rock, you’d probably have a lot of the life in the rock die in such a newly established tank. Tell us a bit more about your live rock, and do you see lots of life on it? little feather dusters, snails, sponges, anything like that?
No critters really, some small hairs and fuzzy things here and there, but I didn’t notice any critters upon purchasing the rock, which was supposedly completely cured upon purchase. The live sand was just the bag stuff, so I’m not even sure how great that is. And also, API never did us wrong either with their testing supplies, I’m sure better stuff is out there, but it worked perfect when we had breeding pairs of Discus and a reticulated freshwater stingray.
We are experienced here, but more so with freshwater, and have been assured by numerous sources that this “ghost cycle” does exist and works. But who knows, every person we talk to has a different opinion. That’s why we came here to get as many different opinions at once then find some happy medium.
Headed to a LFS now with a sample, all of the fish and coral are acting beyond perfect. I don’t notice any flashing or stress, and the corals look better in our tank than at any of the stores we got them from.
Regardless, we’re stuck with what we have, which is a lot of expensive fish and somewhat expensive coral, so we’ll be doing a few water changes for a while it seems until everything gets established. I love this forum already, lol. Thanks guys!
Well in 2 weeks it is possible to have a fully cycled tank, not thoroughly, but fully. It’s best to let a tank sit and cycle for several weeks as it will build a stronger bacterial colony. However sometimes you can be good to go to start adding fish in 2-3 weeks.
Now here is why you have detectable nitrites again…you added too many fish too fast. (we’ve all done it, no big deal)
When you add anything that poops to your tank you’re going to increase the bio-load of the tank. It’s important to give the bacteria a chance to catch up with the newly added crapper before adding more. If you add a chromis you probably would never see the ammonia or nitrite spike in a 65g, they’re small, their poop is small, the bacteria can reproduce fast enough to handle a little extra work.
Now if you added a lion fish you’d see the spike, adding 5 of anything in a small tank (<180g) at 1 time is the equivalent of adding 1 really big fish and the bacteria population can’t reproduce fast enough to keep up and your ammonia and nitrite levels will spike higher.
My recommendation would be to slow down, don’t add anything extra for a couple weeks, no fish, no corals. Let the tank stabilize before adding more, then don’t add any more than 2 small to medium sized fish at a time - wait a week between adding new additions.
This will allow your tank to keep up with your bio-load and reduce the issues you will face as your corals and fish choices grow.
Water changes during any cycle generally slow the cycling process down, if the fish aren’t showing signs of stress and the nitrites are relatively low leave them be, the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates need the nitrites to grow and reproduce. If the nitrite levels get too high then so a small water change to prevent them from becoming toxic.
Well first of all welcome.
I did cycle my tank as well in a very short time but I added rock that was already cure and alot of bio-spira.
I would be careful the first month and continue to moniter it a 65 is a small tank and less room for error then the larger ones. As far as the sand bed our KaptKen is the in tank deep sand bed/plenium guy he uses them and likes them. I did a remote deep sand bed and had real good luck with it and it worked well, but generally a 1-1.5 inch of sand is the most I like to do. Personally I think alot of circulation to keep the build up from laying on top of the sand seems to work at least for me.
Best advise is not to rush it, take it slow. I had freshwater most of my life but reef tanks for 12 years they are easier to turn sour quick.
Look he said advise not advice too I’m not the only one
Awesome advice guys, appreciate it. Just got back from LFS and everything is fine. Zero nitrites and about 20 on the nitrates. Everything else is perfect, LFS said in the clear. We’re just going to lie low for a bit and keep a heavy watch on the parameters, just to be sure. We’re excited to add more corals and fish, but we also want them to survive, so we’re waiting a bit before adding anything more to the bio-load. We don’t need anymore crappers, lol.
my :TWOCENTS on api test kits: phosphate and ph are worthless. ammonia, trites, trates, kh and calcium are good. corroborated by other kits and electronics
[quote=“StoneReefer_210, post:9, topic:4655”]
Awesome advice guys, appreciate it. Just got back from LFS and everything is fine. Zero nitrites and about 20 on the nitrates. Everything else is perfect, LFS said in the clear. We’re just going to lie low for a bit and keep a heavy watch on the parameters, just to be sure. We’re excited to add more corals and fish, but we also want them to survive, so we’re waiting a bit before adding anything more to the bio-load. We don’t need anymore crappers, lol.[/quote]
20 on the nitrates isn’t that bad. If everything is going right… at least in my experience, it should start dropping 3-5 points a week. Just don’t feed too much, and keep any filter socks/sponges clean. keep us updated
Just my :TWOCENTS , but those nitrate levels seem low (which is good). Consider that you have different bacteria which converts nitrates to nitrite, and nitrites into ammonia. Since your nitrite level is low and nitrate level relatively high, I would assume you will be seeing an ammonia spike in the near future . . which is very harmful to your animals. I’d keep a keen eye on your ammonia and test it’s levels at least once a day for awhile, backup water pre-mixed and ready to go for WC’s. You may want to have a contingency plan set up where you can hold your fish for a few days (LFS, club member, etc) in case catastrophe ensues or ::hitsthefan:: . I wish you the best of luck, hope everything thrives!
Forgot to mention, and it’s important, you should mix your salt water for water changes at least 24hrs in advance and let it mix. I mix mine for at least 48hrs, 24hrs airation and 24hrs just mixing. This ensures complete mixing and pH stabilization. If you’re anticipating large volume of water changes in the near future, get a large containter and pre-mix alot at once and let it “cook”.