i am in the process of re aquascaping my tank and while i’m gonna have everything out of the tank i might do a plenum. i can’t find anything on this except a few opinions and just a few links. i can’t search on rc for some reason still so no luck there but i did come across this link and it shows that it doesn’t really matter which way you go you still deal with the same problems. is that the case? here is the link
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature#h4
Ken did a demonstration of how to build a plenum a few months back. He’ll probably be able to answer any questions. Seems like he has done a ton of research on the topic and has used them quite effectively.
[quote=“Cdangel0, post:3, topic:642”]
Ken did a demonstration of how to build a plenum a few months back. He’ll probably be able to answer any questions. Seems like he has done a ton of research on the topic and has used them quite effectively.[/quote]
2nd that!! Ken would be the one to talk to about a plenum set up… both it’s advantages and disadvantages.
I have been talking with ken for awhile now about plenums but just wanted others opinions so I could weigh the pros and cons then decide
I currently don’t use or really like deep sand beds. I really really don’t like plenums. Just my opinion though. Seems like a lot of authors like deep sand beds and seem to use them. Then again at some point most authors used bio balls as well.
Jon
Ken uses bio balls and plenums. I have seen a lot of people complain about bio balls then recant there opinion. Just wanna be sure of the pros and cons before getting into it. All the stuff I see posted about them is all positive.
The chief complaint about bioballs, that i know of, is people feel that they are a nitrate factory. The purpose for bioballs is to introduce a a micro porous surface for beneficial bacteria to colonize. I beleve the problems occur when the bioballs begin to collect detritus then the problem becomes twofold. If you leave the detritus, your going to have decaying organcics and you will have a nitrate spike. If you clean the bioballs your going to destroy bacteria and have a nitrate spike. Im sure if you were able to incorportate them into a system where they were able to stay free of detritus then they could be beneficial. However, with everything else we have available it just doesn seem to be the most efficient route.
As far as DSB and plenums, i believe the chief complaint is that they are nitrate bombs waiting to explode. Ive experienced this first hand. I have a SSB but i have 3-4" dunes in certain areas of my tank becuase of my water flow. I had a koralia come fall of the magnet and was directed straight down into the dune and underlying anaerobic bed. I didnt catch it right away and by the time the sandstorm settled and i tested my nitrates they had gone from <20 to >80. I feel that there are just better ways to do things, and if you really set on a DSB maybe you shoud try a remote 5gal bucket DSB.
just my .02
Yes, I’m a Plenum guy. the nice thing about plenums is they don’t go sour and make deadly hydrogen sulfide, like fine sand DSBs do as a matter of practice. they don’t, that is , as long as you dont let the plenum sand fill up with lots of fine silt and detretus, (like I did), in which case it gets sealed off, stops working like a plenum and becomes a DSB Hydrogen sulfide factory. they do need some cleaning maintenance. but i hadnt vacuumed mine in 5 years. not bad. its been running for 9 years.
Plenums store nothing. it is just a transport system. something like a battery. one charge in the plenum opposite the charge in the tank. so ions migrate down to be consumed by bacteria. People have taken sampes of water in a plenum and found nothing except low O2 water. when i tear down an old plenum, the aragonite is clean and sweet as the day i put it in. unless it hasnt been cleaned , then the pockets of silt will smell, but the rest is clean .
Its a matter of choice. i just figure that with a little cleaning now and then plenums do a great job of denitrating with fewer hazzards than a fine sand DSB.
Oh one thing that i think most people forget is that the plenum space should be kept in total darkness to prevent algea or other organisms growing there and messing up the balance. when i installed mine in the 75 9 years ago, i duct taped black plastic to the bottom of the tank under the stand so that no light could come up from the sump. many tanks have fuges and lights down there which i think can mess up the pelnum cycle. That may be one reason why many have problems with them. even though they set it up right, if something grows down there, and uses the last of the O2, the plenum space goes from anoxic to anerobic, and then its just like a DSB. the battery stops.
Tat,
I had a 55 plenum setup that was really easy maintenence, and I used the GARF setup with PVC and screen top. It is very easy to construct and I am a minimalist in the water change department as long as you do not overfeed, and the plenum was ideal for that. I do not have a plenum in my large 500G, rather a DSB, but for a medium sized system I would go for the plenum. There is the theoretical problem of hydrogen sulfide, but if cared for properly and not disturbed should not be an issue.
RUSS
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:8, topic:642”]
If you clean the bioballs your going to destroy bacteria and have a nitrate spike. Im sure if you were able to incorportate them into a system where they were able to stay free of detritus then they could be beneficial. However, with everything else we have available it just doesn seem to be the most efficient route.
…I feel that there are just better ways to do things, and if you really set on a DSB maybe you shoud try a remote 5gal bucket DSB.[/quote]
I have never used Bio-balls so I am asking this as a why not; couldn’t the loss of the bacteria be nullified by washing the bio-balls in fresh saltwater? That should clean the balls and keep the bacteria alive.
I have read a lot about remote sand beds but I always wanted to see a system running one before I tried it. Anthony Calfo swears by them. (So that means Jon is for them lOl )
My first tank had a plenum using and old under gravel filter. It did the same thing as the pvc and screen but fit my 55 gallon display tank. I didn’t intentionally block light from the area but I doubt there would be an algae problem as Ken described. I never had any algae grow under the plenum. Now I didn’t give it intense light but it got enought where I could easily see what was happening under the sand. I also turned the sand a bit as needed during a water change. I would turn about 10% at each water change but did not disturb the entire bed down to the plenum as I didn’t want to introduce O2 into the lower levels of the sand bed or release a large amount of H2S.
So what it sounds like is… if you don’t mind moving all your rocks out of the way and fluffing up the sand bed and pulling out all the settled waste then they are great? I agree with logans_daddy, I think there are better ways to do things.
My opinion about a theoretical disaster that can be avoided by routine maintenance… it is a sure problem given time. Just look at the hobby. 90% of people talk about the problems they had that one time when they were busy with life. The whole industry is aware of a guaranteed slow period in the summer which means people aren’t as busy with their aquariums. Why make it set in stone that you must do regular maintenance in order to avoid a disaster.
My opinion, subject to change, so far I have yet to hear convincing evidence to try it.
Jon what would you say is the best filtration possible?
That’s almost like asking a mother which is her favorite child, LOL.
“Natural” is the short answer. If you have room for a large refugium with chaeto. The larger water body alone would help as well.
Don’t have room? Dilution is the solution to pollution. (IE keep up with your small frequent water changes)
If you don’t have room for larger tanks and don’t have time for frequent water changes then find the money for a lot of gadgets that might help just a little bit.
Don’t have the money for the gadgets? Then spend a heck of a lot of time reading forums looking for the person who has all the answers.(I’m sure the person that has all the answers spends a lot of time on the forums.) But then again, I thought you didn’t have time for water changes how do you have time for the forums?
Then again how the heck do I have time for forums?!?
verdict_in I’m out! PBJ!
JK still here. There is not silver bullet especially if you want a mixed reef tank with fish in it. A diversity of filtration is the best way to go. Ken grows a lot of macro(quantity and species), has bio balls, has skimmers, has a lot of LR, has DSB with plenums, and does water changes. My methods are simple, but time consuming and not what most people are willing to do.
Jon
Naw, the idea is to not cover the sand bed up completey , like i did over time. the trick is to set rock so that very little sand surface is lost. if it open and accessable, it can be vaccumed more regularly to keep the excess fluff from clogging it up. all things need cleaning. even bare bottom tanks. and rock.
Why do bare bottom tanks and rock need to be cleaned? With sufficient flow everything should be carried off to filtration and nothing should be left. If you don’t have pesky algaes due to either high nutrients or lack of QT both the bottom of the tank and the rock should be maintence free.
Jon
Jon, I’m gonna come out and say it. I don’t believe you own a tank. We need to see pictures of your tank(s).
[quote=“Jocephus, post:17, topic:642”]
Jon, I’m gonna come out and say it. I don’t believe you own a tank. We need to see pictures of your tank(s).[/quote] lOl
Lol ask Andy, Al, Craig, or Ken. Currently 13 in the fish room. That doesn’t include the three in the living room, one in the closet, one in the bathroom, and the seven or so I have stored at my parents. Still don’t have a display tank yet and that is why I don’t usually share pictures.
Jon
[quote=“Gordonious, post:19, topic:642”]
Lol ask Andy, Al, Craig, or Ken. Currently 13 in the fish room. That doesn’t include the three in the living room, one in the closet, one in the bathroom, and the seven or so I have stored at my parents. Still don’t have a display tank yet and that is why I don’t usually share pictures.
Jon[/quote]
lOl That’s funny - most of us use our “fish rooms” as bedrooms, the way they were intended.
I went to Jons to pick something up one day - he asked if I wanted to see his set-up…I left 3 days later.