I have finally started my tank. Just waitin on the sand to settle to the bottom and my shrimp to rot… WOOHOO.
Congratulations and good luck with the tank! Is this your first tank?
Wooohooo! Congrats! It’s a good feeling isn’t it?
This is my first saltwater tank. I am trying to work out a few kinks right now. I am using the AGA overflow kit that came with the tank, which has a ‘float’. While using the float i was getting a very quiet flushing sound. I decide to take the float out and dial back my outlet pipe using a ball valve to slow down the amount of water that was going through the system. I ended up having to dial back my return pumps ball valve too just a little since it seemed to be pumping a little too fast. I am hoping that it won’t put too much back pressure on the pump and cause it to fail.
I have about 29lbs of dead rock, 10 lbs of cycled live rock, and 80lbs (split between my sump refugium (15lbs) and tank (65lbs)) of the Oceanic bagged, supposedly cycled live sand that you can get from either Petsmart or Dr. Macs.
The two questions I do have are:
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I also put 3 small frozen shrimp in the tank to help start the cycle process. Did I need to do that if I am using cycled live rock and cycled sand?
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Should I wait to run my skimmer or can I start it up right now and let it run? I can’t imagine there is much waste in there since I am only using a cycled live rock, although it did have a little bit of dead algae that was brushed off before I bought it from The Fish Bowl.
Thanks for your help.
You probably don’t need 3 shrimp in there to get a cycle going. One probably would do the trick depending on the size. There’s no harm in adding the shrimp - the fact that you have some LR and LS already means your cycle will be shorter as you already have a colony of bacteria that can more easily reproduce.
You could turn the skimmer on but like you said there’s probably not too much in there for it to skim out, and anything you do skim out right now will be that much less for the bacteria to need to handle which will slow the time it take your tank to complete it’s cycle.
One other question and I hope I don’t get smacked too hard for asking since I should have asked this last week before I started adding water…
What sort of testing supplies do you all use for testing the levels of nitrate, nitrites, ammonia, ph, etc… ? I want to get down to Dr. Mac’s this weekend and pick up some of the specific tests that he says are best to use, but I would also like to test this stuff this week to keep a close eye on any ammonia spikes I might see so I want to stop and pick something up on my way home from work today, just to get me by.
Salifert are generally considered high quality test kits. My only problem with reccomending Salifert is that they have a tendency to be pricier then their cheaper counter-parts. One of the problems people getting in to this hobby is the costs associated with it (say compared to a FW tank). I wish there were more quality stuff available at cheaper prices. but then again you get what you pay for.
Make sure you have test kits to measure Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate first. These are the parameters you will be most concerned with. make sure oyu have a means to measure salinity as well.
I just picked up some test kits from my LFS. Pretty much a master test kit, Ammonia, high range PH, Nitrite, and nitrate. My PH in my tank (using tap water, not RODI. My cash flow will not support buying an RODI unit, and I couldnt see filling up a 55g tank and a 20g sump with a 24g per day RO unit from Lowes) looks to be between 8.0 and 8.2. Nitrites and Nitrates are both at 0ppm and my ammonia is already up to 0.5ppm after 1 and a 1/2 full days of running. But I do not know if it is up the upswing or downswing of the cycle. My guess would be that it is still on the upswing since my nitrites are at 0.
Now, the only bad thing is I cant seem to find the other 2 shrimp that were put in the tank, and the one i did get my hands on wasnt really one whole one, it was about half of one… when i start my aquascaping tonight or tomorrow, hopefully I will get hold of the rest of them, cause the one i pulled out really smelled bad… bad bad… Bad as in, the wife catches a whiff of that and me and the tank might both be sleeping out in the shed tonight…
lOl
“My cash flow will not support buying an RODI unit, and I couldnt see filling up a 55g tank and a 20g sump with a 24g per day RO unit from Lowes”
either buy rodi water from a lfs or save up for a unit, maybe used. u will regret using tap water. i will +1 that comment myself. water from the sink will introduce elements you do not want in the tank. scrimp on something else and something else until you can get a rodi unit. if i’m correct you’ll want to do at least a 20% change after the tank has cycled and tap water is just about the worst thing you could add.
face it, sw is spensive
“I am hoping that it won’t put too much back pressure on the pump and cause it to fail. “ No worries their. Most pumps in the hobby are designed to work with head pressure(since they are pumping sometimes with a head height of 4-5 feetâ€ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ), so dialing back the pump a little shouldn’t be an issue at all.
“3 small frozen shrimp†Are these mysis shrimp? Krill from your local fish store? Or are these table shrimp purchased from your grocery store?
I personally would wait to run the skimmer.
Are you testing your Nitrogen cycle? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate?
What is your goal with your aquarium? You said this is a new tank and well obviously it is SW, but ware you thinking FOWLR(Fish Only With Live Rock?)? Are you going for softies only? Have you looked into different types of corals yet? Are their particular animals you are dead set on getting?
[quote=“moliken, post:9, topic:1618”]
“My cash flow will not support buying an RODI unit, and I couldnt see filling up a 55g tank and a 20g sump with a 24g per day RO unit from Lowes”
either buy rodi water from a lfs or save up for a unit, maybe used. u will regret using tap water. i will +1 that comment myself. water from the sink will introduce elements you do not want in the tank. scrimp on something else and something else until you can get a rodi unit. if i’m correct you’ll want to do at least a 20% change after the tank has cycled and tap water is just about the worst thing you could add.
face it, sw is spensive[/quote]
I refuse to think that I cannot have a successful saltwater tank using tap water, and although nobody has said that I am going to fail miserably using tap water, I get this overwhelming feeling that the first time I post a question about a particular problem, I am going to get flamed out because I am using tap water. I may not be able to get some of the most exotic corals or fish available, but for my little piece of the saltwater world, and what I’d like to start off with, I feel that tap water will be fine. I do agree that with tap water I have to be more diligent in my water testing and daily maintenance. I may even get the occasional algae bloom that I have to fight, but that is what makes this a hobby for me.
Regardless, buying an RODI system or going out and buying RODI water from an LFS is just not in the cards right now. I have to make a decision to either begin stocking my fish tank with that $180, or continue to look at an empty tank that I have had for quite a few months now.
I dont want to sound like I don’t appreciate the advice, but when I test the water out of my tap and the PH is 8.0, Nitrates are 0, ammonia is 0, Nitrites are 0, I do not have any chlorine or flouride because I’m on a well and not city water, and my water softener is supposed to be removing 90% of the TDS in my water, I am not real worried about my tap water.
The other issue I have with an RODI unit is that many of the places I have read talk about for every 1 gallon of “good” water that an RODI unit makes, you waste anywhere from 4 to 6 gallons of waste water. So for a 55gallon tank, and 20 gallon sump, we are talking about 300 to 600 gallons of bad water that I’d be pumping into my septic (if it were fully integrated into my house, which the RO unit I have is).
BUt like I said earlier, I will probably end up buying an RODI unit sometime in the future , and if one shows up that is a good price, and something I can afford, I will probably get it. But at the moment, I’d rather put my money into fish, a new lighting system, and some corals.
[quote=“Gordonious, post:10, topic:1618”]
“I am hoping that it won’t put too much back pressure on the pump and cause it to fail. “ No worries their. Most pumps in the hobby are designed to work with head pressure(since they are pumping sometimes with a head height of 4-5 feetâ€ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ), so dialing back the pump a little shouldn’t be an issue at all.
“3 small frozen shrimp†Are these mysis shrimp? Krill from your local fish store? Or are these table shrimp purchased from your grocery store?
I personally would wait to run the skimmer.
Are you testing your Nitrogen cycle? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate?
What is your goal with your aquarium? You said this is a new tank and well obviously it is SW, but ware you thinking FOWLR(Fish Only With Live Rock?)? Are you going for softies only? Have you looked into different types of corals yet? Are their particular animals you are dead set on getting? [/quote]
The shrimp were just frozen table shrimp. And they were the little ones, not the big jumbo shrimp like I had seen people talking about, that was why I used 3, I thought maybe it was the quantity of shrimp that jump started it, not necessarily just some amount of shrimp.
I did test my nitrogen cycle this afternoon. My nitrates and nitrites were both at 0 and my Ammonia was at like .5ppm but I am using the drop tests so they may be off, I am assuming. I understand that to fully test the cycle, Ill have to check everything again tomorrow to see what has changed. I want to test them again before I go to bed tonight just to make sure the tests ran correctly, and I also plan on taking a sample to my LFS tomorrow to have them test it. I am also wondering if the fact that I still have some sand floating around that hasn’t settled, if that will throw the tests off at all?? I read all of the instructions to see what it says, but I dont seem to be finding anything saying to make sure everything has settled.
My goal is to probably have a mix between a Reef Tank and a FOWLR tank. I don’t know if I am ready to jump head on into a Reef Tank, but at the same time, I want to have a good amount of live rock, some fish, and some of the more colorful corals.
As for whether I have decided exactly what I want in my tank, I am not dead set on anything. My wife really wants a mandarin, she liked the leopard mandarin (i think that is what it was called) that we saw at the LFS but I also know that they feed on copepods so I need to make sure that my refugium in my sump is established and a good breeding ground. I think I am goign to go down to Dr.Macs this weekend to grab a few lbs of his live rock, and my LFS has offered to ‘allow’ me ;D to take one of her filter pads off of her one coral tank that is very full of all kinds of little critters. I am guessing that can’t hurt.
To start, my plan is to get at least a couple of clown’s I think, or something that is bright and that might get the attention of my 9 month old son. Personally, I am more into the corals and watching them.
kind of brings forth another HUGE issue… what about the environmental impact of trashing 500 gallons of water for every 50 u use??? going into a drain field and evaporated or back into the ground is not so bad, but those with sewer not septics are flushing this water right into the contaminated waters and to treatment plants while mixing with every other thing we send down the pipes… ideally we would use the “junk” water for plant/pools/lawn/whatever else… i want an honest answer on how many people ACTUALLY do it? not many i am sure, but those same people will gripe environmental isues and “how we need to save the reefs”
???
ihunt, i certainly did not want to flame you or anyone on the question of rodi water. sorry if i came off that way. it’s good that you have well water and softener, etc. just wanted to alert you to the potential probs associated with tap water. maybe other members have other experiences. reading lots led me to not use my tap, which reads 254 on a tds meter,while the rodi is at 2.
bj, insofar as wasting water goes, i have a rain barrel for watering flowers, wife recycles most of our waste water from dishes into the garden when it’s dry outside [obviously not this year, but last year, by the bucketfull], don’t wash car, and use waste water from pond to feed veggies, don’t water lawn, so, while i waste rodi water now, there is a tradeoff. if it gets dry this summer, which i’m sure it will, we’ll carry 5 gal buckets of waste water out for watering.
[quote=“moliken, post:14, topic:1618”]
ihunt, i certainly did not want to flame you or anyone on the question of rodi water. sorry if i came off that way. it’s good that you have well water and softener, etc. just wanted to alert you to the potential probs associated with tap water. maybe other members have other experiences. reading lots led me to not use my tap, which reads 254 on a tds meter,while the rodi is at 2.
bj, insofar as wasting water goes, i have a rain barrel for watering flowers, wife recycles most of our waste water from dishes into the garden when it’s dry outside [obviously not this year, but last year, by the bucketfull], don’t wash car, and use waste water from pond to feed veggies, don’t water lawn, so, while i waste rodi water now, there is a tradeoff. if it gets dry this summer, which i’m sure it will, we’ll carry 5 gal buckets of waste water out for watering.[/quote]
Thank you for the concern, and I am sorry if I came off a little offensive, I just wanted to make sure it was known to anyone that reads this what my reasons were behind not using RODI.
I also wanted to make sure that any newcomers that come are considering the hobby know that there may be different ways of doing things, especially if money is an issue. Now, who knows, I may end up regretting not using RODI water, and it may turn up that I have loads of problems, and end up doing a very large water change using RODI, or at least RO water. That is yet to be seen. And don’t you all worry, I will keep everyone up to date with pictures and what not. If I start to have problems, and get algae blooms like crazy, or some crazy ammonia cycles, I won’t be too proud to post the bad pictures along with the good.
Another thing that concerns me with RODI water is that, you are removing EVERYTHING out of the water except the 2 Hydrogen molecules and 1 Oxygen molecule (thanks Mrs. Smith, told you I learned something in your science class), correct? So not only have I spent a good amount on the RODI system, now I gotta put back some sort of chemical into the water that may have been there in the first place, right? Which again, would be more money and more of a chance to accidentally put too much of that chemical back into the system…
trace elements … maybe… most of it is already in your salt, so when u do water changes or any water mixing u are adding the necessary stuff
I have well water also, but I still wouldn’t use it in my reef tank. You should test your tap for phosphates. If you get any reading at all on a hobby test kit you will have algae problems. I understand that cash flow can be a problem and this is an expensive hobby, but it won’t be much fun if you are constantly battling problem algae.
Moliken was just trying to help you out with some sound advice.
I don’t let the waste water from my RODI go down the drain into my septic. It can be used for other things. I water my plants and my flowers, garden, ect…
I wish you good luck with the new tank. Your water may turn out to be just fine, but I would say the majority of people end up finding out that tap just isn’t good for their tank.
Here’s my 2 cents on all this.
I too have well water and ran my tank on it for about 5-6 months w/o an RO/DI unit. Long story short over looking pictures there was a drastic difference when my tank began to look much nicer and corals began to grow nicely. That coincided w/ the RO/DI unit install. Long story long, my well water tested out fine, no nitrates, no nitrites, no ammonia. Then I noticed my alk was pretty high…and staying pretty high (~15 dKH). My well water was giving me about 8 dKH and the salt mix was bumping that up even more. Ever since getting T5 lights I had cyano and HA (hair algae) which I just couldn’t knock. A friend (ronert) let me borrow his phosphate (salifert) test kit. Turns out my tank water was at 3-4 ppm, which matched exactly what my well water was coming out as 3-4 ppm. Most ‘experts’ will say that 0.1 ppm of phosphate is too high for a reef tank. 3-4 vs 0.1. I installed the RO/DI unit as soon as I could.
All of the things that are in your tap water that are good are added in by your salt mix. Don’t forget that you will be topping off your tank with your well water. The fresh pure water will evaporate and leave whatever was put in with your tap water. When you top off you will be adding in tap water + whatever else is in it, with only pure water evaporating off.
You CAN run a reef tank off of just well water. I did it for 5-6 months and had a fairly nice tank. I was in the EXACT same boat as you, didn’t want to spend the $$$ and didn’t think I was so bad off with well water. In the long run you will have MUCH more success and much LESS headaches with RO/DI water.
On the point of wasted RO/DI water. We collect it and water the plants in a 50 gallon trash bin. On the point of it ruining the environment, ect. How bold are we to think we could ruin a resource that has been on this planet for billions of years with the same elements that have been on this planet for billions of years. Everyone seems to cry save the trees and the environment and the earth. The earth will be here for a LONG time and the environment will continue to chug along and change as it will. The only thing we MIGHT do is accelerate or decelerate our eventual end as a human race having a habitable environment here. If you are that worried about it run your RO/DO output into your yard your just sending it back through the earths natural filtration system, the ground.
ok my :TWOCENTS borow a tds meter and see what your well water is. even a cheap 15 dollar filter from lowes is better than nothing. i use a filter system i made and use no rodi water. spottless algea problem so yes it can be done. the only thing that is unwanted in my tank is a few aptasia right now. so i would test for tds and then decide whether or not a ro di unit is nessasary.
well , you have concerns on several levels. first, if you have a skimmer, run it. it takes a while to break it in with an a layer of bio film on all the internal parts. the good bacteria that helps it work. second, kyou dont need to mega feed sides of beef to a new tank. the bio filterbacteria system is not up to it yet. and whatever is alive in the tank will drive the development of the biofilter. just let it be and feed only as necesarry. it takes time to build the bil filter up to capacity. so go slow. its bio not mechanical. you can easily overload it. strong circulation, aeration and biofiltering will win the day, in time.
I have no idea what you need for tap water filtration. it all depends on whats in the water you might not want in a reef tank? who knows? you just might have nice pure well water. or then again, maybe not. so test the water and see what the level of nutrient/pollutants are. you just might get by for a while on no filtration. but if they are above normal, you need filtration right away. havining high alkalinity, calcium and magnesium levels in your water would be good. but high nitrates , silcates and phosphates would need to be filtered out. an RODI unit takes out all of the good and the bad. then you have to add the good back in again. dumb // Huh? well thats how it goes on a practical level.
one quick fix would be to slow drip your tap water through something like a POLY FILTER pile of pads to remove some of the bad stuff for your makeup water. kinda like a KOLDSTERILE unit does.
or various forms of RO and RODI units. the level of filtration required depends on the level of pollutants. in terms of a reef tank, that is. its all about keeping things right for the ecosystem.