insurance just in case of a power outage. just want it to power what i need to keep the tank alive. any recommendations? amazon has a 2-cycle for under $150, but the next step up runs around $400.
now theres an idea for a club “toy”…
power outtage in the winter? no prob DRC is on the way!!
My only concern with that is, if your not home or say sleeping, what good does it do? I am planning on getting a vortech pump with a battery backup, which might be expensive, but when the power goes out, it goes on. I currently have air pumps in my tank that automatically go on and last atleast 24 hours if not more on a few batteries. Saved me the last power outtage for 12 hours!
its the heat i’d be worried about in the winter, and yea if your not home its a problem.
hey jeff tell your parents to get their driveway sealed!
[quote=“DamnPepShrimp, post:3, topic:1990”]
My only concern with that is, if your not home or say sleeping, what good does it do? I am planning on getting a vortech pump with a battery backup, which might be expensive, but when the power goes out, it goes on. I currently have air pumps in my tank that automatically go on and last atleast 24 hours if not more on a few batteries. Saved me the last power outtage for 12 hours![/quote]
hey jeff, what kind of battery backup pumps? where ya gettem? that sounds like a decent idea.
You can get switched inverters for a moderate price. I have a 1000watt tripp lite inverter with 3 deep cell batteries that have all the powerheads and heaters for two tanks on them. When i lose power it switches automatically to DC backup. With my setup i have run all three heaters(on thermostat) and all powerheads for over 20 hours. I had the powerheads only running for over 2 days before i quit testing. I paid around $200 for a refurbed unit on ebay. You can get smaller and larger ones. The brand i use and trust is Tripplite. The batteries can be expensive but you dont need them all at once. Just one will run your powerheads for a LONG time and you can slowly add batteries until you feel comfortable. The unit also keeps your batteries charged so no need to trickle charge.
thanks shawn. will investigate. it sounds complicated.
Moliken, you can get them at any fish store, DPA TPP they all have them. Great for also transporting fish. I want to run 2 on my 120g and 3 on my 210g.
Shawn, was that $200 for everything minus the battery or? I have looked into using car/marine batteries but need the invertor to make it work, plus the autoswitch (something that plugs into the wall for it to come on when it senses the powerfailure). Sounds like you have a good setup there, any links to it or they only on ebay?
thanks shawn. will investigate. it sounds complicated.
not complicated at all. completely plug and play. plug the inverter into the wall. plug what you want on backup into the inverter. hook up one or more batteries to inverter. thats it. no fuss no muss.
Shawn, was that $200 for everything minus the battery or? I have looked into using car/marine batteries but need the invertor to make it work, plus the autoswitch (something that plugs into the wall for it to come on when it senses the powerfailure). Sounds like you have a good setup there, any links to it or they only on ebay?
That was $200 for everything but batteries. The MSRP is pricey but i see them used and refurbed on ebay all the time for 1/2 of retail or less. I was actually browsing the other day because im going to pick another up for my 265g.
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/product-series.cfm?txtSeriesID=314&EID=14599
Deep Cycle boat batteries have lots of amps. you can run an invert of fthem. The only problem with an inverter converting 12 v DC to 120 AC is they have a built in cutoff when the battery voltage drops to 10.5 Volts. Which means there is still a lot of amps in the battery to use, but the inverter shuts down to prevent undervoltage AC to appliances.
for simple flow and filtration, I would just run a DC boat bilge pump directly off a deep cycle battery as the sump pump. Ive seen those things run for days on a battery when the float switch was stuck, or the boat was leaking. they just pump slower as the voltage drops. 350 gph DC bilge pumps at 2.5 amps? will run at least 24 hours on a deep cycle. the nice thing with a set of boat batteries is, when they run down, just take them out to the car, and recharge them off the car alternator with a set of jumper cables for an hour or two, whatever it takes at idle. that could get you through a multi day power outage.
If its summer, you might not need a heater. but in winter you probable do, which means you need the DC to AC inverter to run one 50 or 100 watt heater per tank.
The only problem with an inverter converting 12 v DC to 120 AC is they have a built in cutoff when the battery voltage drops to 10.5 Volts.
Ken, a dead battery sits at around 10.5 volts. A fully charged 12VDC will sit at around 13.5-14VDC when on float and 12VDC under load. You will get more than enough power from a 12V battery on an inverter.
when they run down, just take them out to the car, and recharge them off the car alternator with a set of jumper cables for an hour or two, whatever it takes at idle
there are several problems with that. first, its a huge PIA to haul batteries out to your car. you would also be relying on a less than fully charged battery as your backup and, charging the battery that way would severly shorten the life of your battery. using an inverter eliminates all of these problems. there is no need to recharge as the inverter has a float mode which is similar to a battery tender or trickle charger which eliminates the need to recharge batteries and leaves you with a 100% charged battery 100% of the time.
depending on how oftern the battery is used, a new gel cell could last you 10 years or more and still be at 75% efficiency or better.
As a battery burns its amps, the voltage also drops. Car batteries only start the car with the top 10% of float. Ive come home on boats when the alternator belt broke without a spare. we just keep running on the battery, but as the voltage drops, so does the spark and the engine slows down and loses power. many times we just got back chugging like an old diesel. starting batteries are meant for a fast start spark but not that much float. deep cycles are for a longer, slower discharge and to hold the voltage longer.
the reason your old filament bulb flashlights slowly go dim, is the voltage drop on the battery as it discharges. it takes a certain voltage to keep the filament glowing at peak. less voltage, less light.
which is why an inverter has a low voltage cut out, so as not to over amp the inverter or line equipment you are running. But a DC motor bilge pump will keep pumping no matter whatthe volts. it just slows down as the voltage drops. the principal of variable voltage DC speed controlled motors.
I dont disagree that a DC pump could run longer than the inverter, i simply wanted to point out that the math is not linear. Observers might look at your comment and think if your starting with a 12v battery and it is only useful until it depletes to 10.5V then its less than 15% useful which isnt the case. It doesnt matter what kind of battery you use, or for what application, ohms law doesnt change. What we want is power. We get power with voltage x current. Our devices that require battery back up are AC with a fixed operating load. All batteries have a “capacity” to supply a given amount of amps over a given amount of time at operating voltage. This is where the type of battery comes into play. batteries are rated at amp/hours. although this rating can be tricky, it should be fairly accurate for our needs. to get a ballpark number you can add up the total wattage of your devices and divide by 120 to get a ballpark amp draw. you can then divide the total amphour your battery is rated for by your amp draw and mutiply by 10 to get an idea of the number of hours your battery will run your devices. there are a LOT of factors that will effect this, but it should at least give you a decent idea of what to expect. i know that i am drastically over simplyfing things but it should suffice. the one thing ive noticed while working with batteries is that you get what you pay for. the math doesnt always work the way you might think it will. the quality of the materials used play a big role in how well a battery will perform and sometimes its hard to really know just how well a battery will performin a specific application if its not designed for such an application.
deep cycles are for a longer, slower discharge and to hold the voltage longer
a true deep cycle battery only differentiates in the fact that its designed to withstand more charging cycles while maitaining its capacity over the lifetime of the battery. the rate at which it discharges is strictly related to the batteries design/purpose and the load on the battery, its not inherent to all deep cycles. i think a lot of people equate the term deep cycle with marine batteries which are designed to perform the way your described. the discharge characteristics are related to its specific purpose/design(ie. marine) and not because its a deep cycle. of course the two terms are almost synomonous these days ;D
ken, just so you know, i agree with you 100% that deep cycle batteries are the only way to go. i guess i didnt spell that out before ;D to make it more clear for those that are interested, car batteries will not work well because, as ken mentioned, they are designed to provide a lot of amps for a short period of time. if anyone decides to tinker with the idea of building one or purchasing one, i have a couple of tools that might be useful including an amp meter that i could lend out.
Another caution about batteries. Lead acid type batteries give off hydrogen gas when being charged/discharged. This is not a good thing in an enclosed area. A battery explosion can ruin your whole day as well as alot of property. I know I lost a boat to some idiot who had bad batteries and went to sears and bought a car charger then left it connected during the week. HE was at the junction of a t-dock when his boat started to burn nobody could get to the others. I believe 25 boats were lost that night. No lives thank god. 12 years later we are still trying to get paid for our losses. Batteries and their systems are not something to fool around with.
Mike
Lead acid type batteries give off hydrogen gas when being charged/discharged.
quite true. another reason why using a 3 state charger is so important. explosions are very rare and are usually the result of overcharging an old battery or batteries that are in series/parallel incorrectly. even this wont cause an explosion but rather an eruption of the battery. still messy, but not an explosion.
in order to concentrate the hydrogen gas sufficiently enough to explode and to provide an ignition point is a lot more difficult than it sounds. in the industry i work in we have over 500 power supply cabinets that contain either 3 or 6 heavy duty lead acid batteries(with probably hundreds of thousands through out the country). these batteries are routinely drained and recharged inside of a small metal cabinet with very minimum ventilation. these cabinets also have mutiple points that could cause a spark including a 240V outlet, a power supply, and an open pin-style AC connection. Ive never once heard of an explosion. Ruptured batteries yes, explosions no.
keeping these batteries are no more dangerous than your light fixture which can cause fires. use sense and safety just like anything else. however, like you mentioned, in the right scenario batteries can be very dangerous.
moliken - incase your still following ;D a lot of these comments are exactly why i recommended and use the system i use. its very safe, very efficient, and very easy. the inverter i use is almost identical to the ones i use at work except for the voltages used.
a link with some very good, simple info.
however, like you mentioned, in the right scenario batteries can be very dangerous.
moliken - incase your still following Grin a lot of these comments are exactly why i recommended and use the system i use. its very safe, very efficient, and very easy. the inverter i use is almost identical to the ones i use at work except for the voltages used.
still trying to follow. lol
i may have to go the battery backup air pump. if power goes when i’m out, it’ll work till i get home, if i’m on vaca, the tank sitter’ll let me know.
Batteries do produce hydrogen gas. In an enclosure like logans daddy is describing are there any things that spark? A 240 volt outlet,an ac pin has a spark potential but will only spark if acted upon. In my case investigators found the explosion and fire was a result of hydrogen gas build up ignited by a bilge pump coming on. How many things in and around were you are going to place these batteries can and will create a spark? Water heaters,furnaces,light switches,washing machines,cigarrettes just to name a few. Just google battery explosions and see what pops up. Logans daddy sounds like your enclosures are built to handle batteries probably the resultant explosions. Just like the cabinent in my shop to store combustibles in. Look at those things and how they are built. The one I had to purchase for my insurance company to be satisfied to cover me claims to be able to withstand a hand grenade.
The reason I bring this up is that is how my boat was lost. Yes my insurance company paid to clean up 300 gallons of diesel fuel,60 gallons of antifreeze and misc other chemicals spilled into the Chesapeake BAy. THey also raised the hulk of my boat and disposed of it. We are still in litigation over the actual loss due to some one being an idiot and tring to save a few bucks. Personally my family and my home is clearly worth more than placing what amounts to a bomb in or near my residence. I have a small propane fired generator fires up once a month as a test runs a few lights,the tank and the heater enough to survive on I did it for 3 days several years ago during the big ice storm. It was only about 900 installed.
Batteries do produce hydrogen gas.
i didnt say they didnt, i agreed with you.
what happend to you sucks, and i agree that batteries can be dangerous. i simply said that its an unlikely occurence. IMO, the battery backup i use is probably one of the least dangerous pieces of equipment related to my tanks. retro-light kits, ballasts, heaters, etc are much more likely to cause problems. heck, a member right here had a scare with a heater not more than a couple of weeks ago. the biggest danger with batteries and explosions comes with storing large amounts of batteries. most of the “explosions” are usually large battery arrays stored as UPS backup for telecommunications(i should know, thats the industry i work in:)). and i couldnt agree more. when storing large amounts of batteris there is a VERY real danger of explosions when batteries are being recharged and proper ventilation should be a top priority.
In an enclosure like logans daddy is describing are there any things that spark? A 240 volt outlet,an ac pin has a spark potential but will only spark if acted upon. Logans daddy sounds like your enclosures are built to handle batteries probably the resultant explosions.
not even close ;D our cabinets are a very thin sheet metal that you could probably punch a hole through. however, they are outdoor cabinets. its very easy to create a spark in the cabinet. any water migration can cause a short resulting in a spark not to mention that these cabinets are often polemounted and are very prone to having the supplies burnt up with power surges.
the release of hydrogen is a fact. however, the only time any significant amount of hydrogen is going to be released is when a batter is rechaging which is directly related to its charge state. on a 3 stage charger its almost non-exisitent at all times except for immediately following a power outage. now, if i kept my batteries in a small, sealed enclosure while the charged from almost dead to completely full without venting the enclosed space and then added a spark would it explode? probably.
i dont want to downplay the danger of batteries. however, what your talking about is just really applicable with one or two batteries unless its in a seald, confined space like the scenario i mentoned. because of the weight of hydrogen it dissipates very quickly and does not reach combustibility until at or around 4% or better which is going to be impossible to produce enough hydrogen from one or two standard batteries to raise the hydrogen content of your air to 4%.
I have a small propane fired generator fires up once a month as a test runs a few lights,the tank and the heater enough to survive on I did it for 3 days several years ago during the big ice storm. It was only about 900 installed.
wow, i didnt realize that you could get any size generator for that price, let alone a fixed unit. does it switch automatically or does it require manual start? i say this because i know the auto-switching is one of the more expensive features. if its not, it goes back to one of the original posts. a generator that wont auto switch is only slightly better than not having a generator at all. of course, a switching whole house generator is the only way to go if you have the money. unfortunately, i live in a townhouse and we dont have natural gas which is the only way i would go. for me, storing fuel on my property in any way, shape, or form is more dangerous than batteries ;D
i may have to go the battery backup air pump. if power goes when i'm out, it'll work till i get home, if i'm on vaca, the tank sitter'll let me know.
cant say that i blame you after this thread ;D
Thats a very good point Mike. but all i know is when trying to get back to dock from 20 miles off shore with a dead alternator, we could keep running until the battery voltage dropped to between 8 or 9 volts DC. at that point the engine would die because there wasnt enough spark to make the jump on the plugs and run the motor. we would sit there and monitor the voltage drop and our distance from dock.
the voltage drop is common to all chemical baterries. that is why good LED flash lights have a DC to DC voltage regulating micro chip in them. as the battery voltage drops, the chip draws more amps at the lower volts and bumps the volts up to the required amount to keep the LED burning at near full brightness. that way they can run longer at full power by draining more of the amps from the battery. but check the fine print on the DC to AC inverters. I did, they all have a low DC voltage cut off at 10-10.5 VDC. which means you dont get as long off the battery, deep cycle or not, as there is amps.
the battery/inverter will work fine for minimal lights and heaters for the day. but you can get more mileage out of a straight DC bilge pump between recharges.
Maybe a little of both?