I finaly got this salt from DPA, after doing lots of research. Will do my 3% weekly water change this eve. and keep posting results. :BEER
3% a week? Is that a typo? Must have a low bio load and large filtration. I love regular Tropic Marin Pro, have yet to try the Bio-Active, but I know Shawn snagged a free bucket and seemed to like it.
I hear its nice and Charlie is one of the only people carrying it right now so come on by and get your bucket! 
I hear its fantastic mix as well, I would be using it now if Charlie had it when I needed new salt. For now I use Red Sea’s salt and love it.
I’ve only known one other person locally to use RedSea and like it and he broke down and sold his big set up.
[quote=“Gordonious, post:2, topic:3105”]
3% a week? Is that a typo? [/quote]
No, tank is only 7weeks old, DSB and refugium + skimmer for 12h a day. Fish load will be high!
My recommendation would be to start feeding more like you will when it is fully stocked and start doing water changes like you will when it is fully stocked. I don’t think it’s just being optimistic to think you’ll only be doing 3% water changes, but unrealistic unless you have a very large refugium and or sump volume.
Regardless of how well you stock with a cleanup crew and cycled rock it is impossible to exactly match the bacterial and micro fauna which will eventually occur when your tank is well established. In order for the bacteria to reach what they will be at and for your tank to be “mature” and stable I would treat it, asap, like you will treat it when it is mature.
Just my two cents. To each their own.
I fully agree :BEER with you. Tank is getting fed alot. But as for water changes I am following Dr.Shimeks theory of DSB. So if there is no nitrates to remove (testing is done 2-3 times a week) than less water removed from system , the better. I can’t beleve I am saing it, because when I kept Discus I used to change over 50% weekly! Orp speaks for it self, with less than 5% drop is very min, I get 360-370 from stable 380. With higher changes ORP was droping to 250. “Water changes are for removal of natrates in incomplete eco systems” I just made this statment up, but idea(theory) is the same as per Dr.Shimek. But why 3% and not 2,4,5, it’s just works for my system. Without shutting anything down(system running) my refuge only allows 5gal water change. My nitrates were as high as 5-10ppm for weeks 2-3 from start, but than whent to 0 and its beeing like this so far. Also some red slime alge was on sand as of week 4, but now its almost disapeared. Any comments are greatly appreciated, I apolgize for spelling but i can’t get spell checker to work verdict_in
[quote=“Rosti, post:8, topic:3105”]
“Water changes are for removal of natrates in incomplete eco systems”[/quote]
Eh, true but incomplete statement. If you had the word “only†in there I would be heavily objected to this statement. How often do you test your copper? How about Molybdenum? Not that it is likely these levels are way off, but it is virtually impossible to test for all the elements in your tank and many things you wouldn’t expect are absorbed by marine organisms in our tanks and in nature. Testing for just the bio-limiting elements alone can drive you to the poor house(and the insane asylum). Many people look to water changes alone to replace these. And forget using an off the shelf additive system that has everything in it.
Still to this day I’ve met only one person who has kept a tank long term without doing water changes and been successful and he is a marine chemist with more experience, and expensive test kits, then just about anyone you’ll ever meet. 3% isn’t 0%, but it is pretty small. And I am not sure it will be enough. Is there a link to more info about the rest of your set up? Do you use a Calcium reactor?
Do you use scientific grade test kits? If you are using a hobby grade test kit such as Red Sea or API then odds are your Nitrates are a LOT higher then you think they are. Elos I still consider middle of the road between the two.
It is good to hear you monitor your ORP as well. This will give you a much better grasp of what is going on, so I give you props there.
I never use the only spell checkers, always copy and paste it into word. Randomly on most forums the content won’t post and after typing something long… you hit back and nothing is there. I can just re-paste.
Good Idea about using Word and “onlyâ€ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ, you are right. We know very little about chem. of our tanks, we can only test few parameters out of possibly 100s, but we can use our eyes and judgment to see what’s going on with animals we keep! As for test kits, doesn‘t matter if it’s API, Red Sea, etc., if different shades of pink mean 5,10,20 and so on and blue is 0 than who cares if it’s 1.564, we all know lots animals in our systems use nitrates and phosphates. So of course there is a traces of nitrates, but for us it’s as good as 0. Maybe correct way to say is low or undetectable. But you do have a good point and I will keep monitoring and adjusting as system matures.
I replace evaporated water with Kalk. (drip for now) and add 2 part reefusion by seachem, to keep cal at 420-440, alk. At 10-11. I can’t seem to get it higher yet. This is good enough for now. My next step is to purchase Kalk reactor and auto top off or dosing pump, $600-700 no matter which way I go. I haven’t made my mind up yet, still experimenting. I don’t like idea of dumping Kalk. Into tank of refuge, ph probe in refuge jumps .2 if I even drip fast.
I would have to agree that doing waterchanges are doing a lot more than simply reducing NO3. Im not a chemist, heck im not even good at chemistry, but ill share my unqualified opinion all the same! lol
I agree with Jon. There is a LOT more going on in our tanks than the basic things we test. We put a LOT of stuff in our tanks(additives, food, etc) and i assume that things we are not aware of can build up over time. Ive also read several interesting articles about the ionic balance of our tank water as it relates to dosing and waterchanges. With that said, i agree a lot about the amount of water you change being related to your tank and its conditions. If you tank stays at 0ppm nitrates and your happy with what you see(color, PE, etc) i think small, infrequent waterchanges are just fine but i wouldnt skip them all together. Personally, when my NO3 starts to stay consistently at 0ppm i usually bump up my feeding.
As far as the salt goes i was able to try out a bucket. I think most people know that ive been a big fan of TM for a long time and the new salt is no different. They seem to be consistent in their product line and rarely rush a product to market. The BIO-ACTIF isnt new by any means. Its a product that has been out for quite a while only the incorporation of the product into their saltmix is good. Im going to stick with the reef pro only because i dose carbon and bacteria and i would be worried about complications.
Rosti - i thought it would be worth it to point out that TM is pretty adament about following a fixed WC schedule when using their salt in order to see optimal results. Remember that with these polymers there is a lot more at play than regular saltmixes and TM seem to suggest that you wont see the added benefits without doing frequent waterchanges on the scale that they suggest.
[quote=“Rosti, post:10, topic:3105”]
doesn‘t matter if it’s API, Red Sea, etc., if different shades of pink mean 5,10,20 and so on and blue is 0 than who cares if it’s 1.564,[/quote]
We must not confused resolution with accuracy here. If you take a API, Red Sea, and two saliferts off the shelf of an LFS and test their fish systems this could be the result
API - 0ppm
Red sea - 0ppm
Salifert - 20ppm
Salifert - 0.25ppm
Very true it doesn’t matter if a scientific grade test kit would tell you if your sample was 20.0001 or 20.01ppm, but 0 vs 0 vs 20 vs .25! Many hobby grade test kits will argue with each other and even against a second kit from the same brand.(salifert being the worst as they have had MANY bad batches that they used to fess up to, but then realized they were more profitable if they became a faceless company that doesn’t have any PR program.
It is not that I recommend a higher quality test kit for high resolution, but for consistent accurate results. Always make sure that the levels make sense to you. For instance if you can’t seem to get your Calcium any higher, but you know you added enough solid to bring your solution up from 420 to 460 according to accurate calculations take a minute to figure out why before trying to throw more at it.(for instance this guy I used know would throw calcium in his tank over and over without ever owning a Mg test kit. Tried to explain to him how this might not be a good idea and he should check his Mg levels, but he knew what he was doing… that’s a joke, btw he didn’t know what he was doing.)
[quote=“Rosti, post:10, topic:3105”]
keep cal at 420-440, alk. At 10-11. I canÂ’t seem to get it higher yet.[/quote]
I wouldn’t ever try to get either one higher. If you are trying to replicate the advice of someone else that keeps their tank higher… I wouldn’t until your tank is mature and I would ask them if the use a Calcium reactor. Dosing enough to get it that high is unnatural and walking a fine line. Doing it without crashing your tank will require so frequent testing and so many test kits your better of saving your time and money and buying a Ca reactor.
I would normally say skip the kalk reactor and go right to a calcium reactor as it won’t be that much more, but will be a million times better for your tank and won’t need replacing any time soon. Your system is VERY likely to exceed the need for mineral additions above what a kalk reactor could provide. There is supposed to be a really inexpensive, but well made kalk reactor coming out soon. If you do the CA reactor though I would highly recommend doing it right and getting a controller vs trying to get the perfect bpm rate which you will find virtually impossible to do.(you’ll know what I mean once you start reading about them)
I wouldn't ever try to get either one higher.+1
I wanted to make one other note, and this might not even benefit anyone reading, so just call it a vent if you want.
First Please, please please realize Rosti this is not directed towards you or anyone else commenting on this thread.
There were several people that walked away from hearing a presentation giving by Julian Sprung last year on Old Tank Syndrome with confidence. Ok, maybe it was just one person, but it really ticked me off and I seem to see a lot of this false confidence around. What I’m talking about is those who will explain corals or fish dieing one at a time over and over for years on end sometimes one a month, sometimes two in a week, but in their minds and even out loud, “It’s ok, there are a lot of things we just do not understand about these animals and the ocean. It is so complicated and we’ll never understand all of it. Even scientist scratch their heads about things dealing with the reef.†…. That’s one bill load of
B U L L S H :think) :Welcome)
If you are losing animals that fast and that rapidly than you are buying them from the wrong source, are missing something obvious most people you know what they are doing would figure out, or …. Here’s a radical idea, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING!
Too many people choke things up to the big mystery, we’ll never known, perhaps one day we’ll figure out how to keep these things alive longer, but for now this is to be expected. Fact is anyone who has been in this hobby for a couple of years or who really knows what they are doing aren’t so quick to give up on figuring out why, don’t kill so many animals, and bottom line have more problems with corals growing into each other and overcrowding or big fat OLD mean fish that just will not die then they do with keeping anything alive! Too many people who run maintenance companies, try to talk to the public at LFS, or make YouTube videos really need to pick up a damn book or go back to school.
OK, vent over I rest my case. Again this isn’t targeted towards anyone in this thread. Just thought of it when Rosti said, “We know very little about chem. of our tanksâ€ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ. I agree if you look at what there is potentially to learn from the reefs, we do you know very little. While there is an awful lot we don’t know, compared to what was known even 30-40 years ago, we know an awful lot. Because of this knowledge we are able to maintain beautiful aquariums.(well, some of us, lol)
I would just point out Jon that there is a big distinction between
Too many people choke things up to the big mystery,and simply respecting and recognizing the complexities of a coral reef.
While i generally agree with your sentiment as it relates to hobbyists that seem to be uncaring and unwilling to properly care for their animals i would like to think that they represent the minority of “long term” hobbyists. I think its naive to think that everyone is capable of even grasping some of the more advanced concepts of the hobby. I would say that everyone has a responsibility to take the time to learn and understand the minimum required to provide the best care for their animals as possible. It wouldnt be considered acceptable for someone to neglect or not care for their dog. It should be equally unacceptable to neglect the marine animals in our care.
Eh sadly I think there is more “hobbyist” who still preach what they practice without really understanding what it is they are doing or realizing it won’t work for most other hobbyist. Luckily most of them haven’t evolved with latest media trends either, but unfortunately some now can be seen on YouTube, preaching about miniature undersized UV sterilizers, canister filters, plastic tubs from Wall-Mart that are not food-grade and likely to burst, and many other practices even the forum frequent reefers know better than to use.
There are a slew of people on YouTube which give length presentations about the proper way to run a reef tank when their tanks sit in the background obviously not yet even mature and plenty of tiny little frags that haven’t grown out and are improperly placed. It is kind of cool to get different perspectives on things and to get new ideas, but LFS may be off the hook for being, on average, the worst places to go for advice when setting up a reef tank.
(Note there are some YouTube videos out their which do give great advice and some of our LFS are up there with some of the best places to get advice, unfortunately the one I could walk to is the up there as one of the worst places to get advice!)
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:11, topic:3105”]
Rosti - i thought it would be worth it to point out that TM is pretty adament about following a fixed WC schedule when using their salt in order to see optimal results.[/quote]
You are correct, it’s recommended that 15% min weekly changed with this mix. Point is taken, I will adjust my scedule to 15% weekly, yhank you
I will post results in a few days to take more beating slap-stick
[quote=“Gordonious, post:12, topic:3105”]
I wouldn’t ever try to get either one higher.
I would normally say skip the kalk reactor and go right to a calcium reactor as it won’t be that much more, but will be a million times better for your tank and won’t need replacing any time soon. Your system is VERY likely to exceed the need for mineral additions above what a kalk reactor could provide. There is supposed to be a really inexpensive, but well made kalk reactor coming out soon. If you do the CA reactor though I would highly recommend doing it right and getting a controller vs trying to get the perfect bpm rate which you will find virtually impossible to do.(you’ll know what I mean once you start reading about them)[/quote]
I do have a controller and i have red alot abut it, so myplan for now is Kalk reactor(sterer) with tunze osmolator and continue to dose 2 part reef fusion until need for cal reactor in future, plan is to keep alk at10 and cal at 420 for now
You are correct, it's recommended that 15% min weekly changed with this mix. Point is taken, I will adjust my scedule to 15% weekly, yhank youyour welcome
[quote=“Gordonious, post:16, topic:3105”]
unfortunately the one I could walk to is the up there as one of the worst places to get advice!)[/quote]
- 1,000,000,000,000