I am new on the forum this is my first real post since I have been viewing these forums. I am still pretty new to saltwater. It has been a learning experience to say the least and a match stick in the wallet.
Here is my problem.
I have a 20G long nano reef tank. I just bought a used sump setup for it. got all the stuff I needed after I cleaned and scrubbed it( no chemicals used) set it all up and now all of my corals look like they are basically dying of some major shock. The water now also has a nasty smell I never had before. Jared said I should have used vinegar so I decided after a bit of thought to remove the sump and do what Jared said about using vinegar to clean it.
I do not know how much vinegar to water ratio I am supposed to use or if there is any other steps to cleaning this so I can put it back into operation. Also should I run the sump on a loop with a bucket to clean the pump? I am also doing a 4 1/2 gallon water change within the next hour, I already put my HOB filter , HOB skimmer back on the tank.
What do you guys think? Sorry if this is a bit jumbled I am multi tasking with my kid and this problem and this post verdict_in
Another thread to come of current tank setups in members section after I get this all settled… Save the trach!!
We need a of information to help determine the cause, first off all your water parameters, how long has the tank been set up, have you added anything, what lighting do you have over your coral, what coral do you have, what piping did you use to the sump, glues involved?
You can wash a tank with straight vinegar if you just make sure to rinse it thoroughly. Used tanks are dicey to me because if someone used a lot of copper medication the tank is compromised, the first sign of this would be invert die off.
Nitrates were around 10ppm
phosphates 0-.5 ppm
calcium around 400+
DK hardness 9
coralife t-5 2x24
40lb live sand
20+lb live rock (had to split some with the other tank)
leather finger
trach brain
candy cane
coco worm
bunch of little mushroom frags
blastomusso
yellow tail,4stripe,blue damsels
2x astrea
3x nass
these test are my normals. The only change the past month+ in this tank have been the sump.
This tank was originally planned to just make live sand for the next tank I was trying to get but I created a nitrate bomb in my smaller tank when I moved my live rock out and from my blue velvet blowing sand all over to the bottom of the tank so To keep everything alive I tested my tank and put everything in the 20g. It has been setup now for 1-2 month. So its not fully cycled but everything was living and still is as of now. I bought the sump setup from Greenbank for $45 with pump and overflow box. I rinsed everything out of it and scrubbed it with a acyrlic scrubby and let it run for about 2 hours with a bucket of fresh water then let it sit over night with water in it and re rinsed everything again after I got carbon,filter pad, phosban and put fresh tubing on everything. I got everything setup yesterday evening and adjusted flow to where I wanted it to be. Today after my lights came on I noticed all the mushrooms were shriveled up and not the usual night shrivel more like a shock look my finger leather stayed balled up and whiter then normal on the top and is now keeled of with a full 120 degree bend The trach brain is sucked up more then it ever has been with mucas slime coming out from it and its mouths wide open during the day his tenticles were out like it was night time. Inverts at the moment are still alive. But 1 astrea snail is hanging half out of his shell and shriveled foot. but still on the glass.
Did I miss anything?
oh no glue used I used 8" of the old pvc from the over flow and added a black flexible drain tubing for sumps, vinyl tubing from the pump to the tank with a brass ball valve to control the flow. 100 micron filter pad, filter socks for carbon and phos-ban.
[quote=“IanH, post:3, topic:3704”]
What else was added with the sump? Skimmer? Rock? ect?
Just adding volume shouldn’t hurt anything in the tank provided that the added volume of salt water was of similar make up (salinty, ca alk mag, ect.)
Running some carbon and small water changes should help mitigate any unintended changes.[/quote]
I use reef crystals and always make my salinity between 1.024-1.025. I put it in a bucket I use only for mix with a hob filter with no pad to help with oxygen levels and good mix. sometimes I add reef chemicals depending if the tank need them only in mixed water so its diluted before it goes in the tank and I use a hose to syphon in the tank to if there is change in the values its not instant on them its gradual.
I’m with Tim on the vinegar - I don’t ever cut it - just straight vinegar works very well. Just rinse it very very good. I also am not a big fan of used tanks unless I know who I am getting it from because you never know what was in it before you had it. Copper will leach in to the silicone seals and leach back out in to your tank. You can run the pump right in the sump to give it a good cleaning too. Costco sells vinegar in gallon jugs cheap.
Your corals could just be stressed from working in the tank. It sounds like you added the sump and things went down hill right away. Even anything left over in the sump probably will not have an impact that fast. When you added the extra water volume did you make sure it was the same temp and salinity as the rest of the tank? With a tank that small a little difference could make a BIG impact.
Get that brass ball valve out of there NOW! Copper in your tank will ruin everything.
From what I can gather you have your head around this pretty well, what I would guess is that when you added your sump you also added more system volume and that 10-15g of fresh made salt water added to your 20g may have caused a reaction, perhaps a mini cycle as well?
[quote=“Cdangel0, post:6, topic:3704”]
I’m with Tim on the vinegar - I don’t ever cut it - just straight vinegar works very well. Just rinse it very very good. I also am not a big fan of used tanks unless I know who I am getting it from because you never know what was in it before you had it. Copper will leach in to the silicone seals and leach back out in to your tank. You can run the pump right in the sump to give it a good cleaning too. Costco sells vinegar in gallon jugs cheap.
Your corals could just be stressed from working in the tank. It sounds like you added the sump and things went down hill right away. Even anything left over in the sump probably will not have an impact that fast. When you added the extra water volume did you make sure it was the same temp and salinity as the rest of the tank? With a tank that small a little difference could make a BIG impact.[/quote]
I got the tank from a fish store I have dealt with for over 15 years now. It is an acyrlic tank so no silicone inside. When I do water changes I let it mix for usually 24 hours even though it says its ready once dissolved. I have a HOB filter for mixing and oxygen and forgot to mention in previous quote also have a heater and sometimes I add my powerhead in there if I need it sooner then 24hrs.
[quote=“TimH07, post:7, topic:3704”]
Get that brass ball valve out of there NOW! Copper in your tank will ruin everything.
From what I can gather you have your head around this pretty well, what I would guess is that when you added your sump you also added more system volume and that 10-15g of fresh made salt water added to your 20g may have caused a reaction, perhaps a mini cycle as well?
Tough to tell, but I figured I’d try. :BEER[/quote]
Its brass with brass fittings so I could use it with the tubing. No copper is in the system. all this change in my corals started within 12-16 hours after sump was setup, maybe sooner but I was sleeping :ZZZ)
[quote=“TimH07, post:9, topic:3704”]
Brass is copper and zinc, brass will contaminate your entire tank and render it and your live rock useless to reefers.
Here is a discussion over a copper crash a few friends of mine went through.
Wow… Thank you for pointing this out to me. I already went on google and see the copper and zinc is deff. in the mix… I also started skimming through that post… and that would explain why my astrea snail looks like so bad…
wonder if this 4 1/2gal water change will help save anything :S I more less worried about the corals then anything. and my trach I have had it since I started s/w in the 12g tank…
I am thinking now to fill a 18gallon tub after cleaning it with vinegar and filling with a fresh s/w mix then drip the corals and inverts so I can put them in the tub. After reading everything I have I am already debating getting rid of this tank and buying another. What are your opinions on this idea? I have about 2/3 of the 20g still full I just took out about 4gallons plus when I shut the sump off earlier that drained another 2 or 3 gallons. I have the carbon in a sock in the HOB filter. I am only worried about the corals at this moment then anything else. What else should I do considering I have a 2-4" sand bed and all that live rock exposed to it?
I set up the 18 gallon tote. I dripped all the corals for 1-2 hours prob closer to 2. Hopefully things will work out. Now I am just researching the options of what to do with the current tank or just go out and buy a tank and try to do everything right the next go around.
I am debating the idea of doing a reef only grow out tank since I do not have a DT yet we are saving up for that unless I get a real good deal and don’t tell the g/f what I spend. verdict_in DT has been in the plans just the cost of doing it the way I want it and not half ass’d. Does anyone know any local stores that might have something like a 30-36"x 24ishx10"?
damsels will cause issues without a doubt. very aggressive and territorial. worse than brass
and since it hasn’t been said :Welcome) :Welcome) :Welcome)
[quote=“moliken, post:14, topic:3704”]
damsels will cause issues without a doubt. very aggressive and territorial. worse than brass
and since it hasn’t been said :Welcome) :Welcome) :Welcome)[/quote]
Thank you.
They were good starter fish. We didn’t have problems with them till we got the blue velvet and the 4 stripe they were bigger then the other 2 damsels. We have had them around 5 months i think. Or I might be using them to start cycling another tank idk yet. The blue velvet made a nitrate bomb taking my nitrates to the far beyond in the 12g.
I am still kind of furious about this whole mess up and now after my power nap I need to get in gear. still need answers about the live rock and sand. to try and verify that basically they are worth nothing now :~S
Its not necessary to stress and poison animals to cycle a tank, this is a practice done by impatient people. All your tank needs is some fish food/waste and about 4-6 weeks to cycle. Live rock does well in this time as most of the time it has die off and needs to cure again anyway.
Poly bio marine makes a poly pad that will pull any copper out… problem is… its in the gravel, rock, and possibly silicone. Price of a new tank is prolly way lower than replacing what u choose to stock it with.
This does not sound like a copper kill to me, it sounds more like a water change was done too quickly after mixing the new saltwater. Craig said somewhere back there something similar, I have to agree. I would not dispose of your live rock and sand, there is no proof that copper was to blame. I think that it would take a while for a ball valve to leach the copper into the tank. Likely more a problem of a mini-cycle due to differing salinity, pH (my guess), or temperature. Do small, regular water changes and wait it out before you push the eject button!
I bought another 20g long tank since petco has a dollar a gallon sale. I am thinking of putting just the water and corals in this tank and nothing else… Not sure about this since I would only have a hob filter with carbon in it to help keep the metals out, no sand or rocks.
After tax time we are looking at just buying a Max 250 65g aquarium kit from that pet place to make things a little more simple and easier or just build everything the way I really want it to be.
The kit is $1800 and the way I would build if I do it my way is closer to 2500-3000. Just tired of doing this little skimp work so next time do it right or don’t do it is how I will go about it.
This whole episode has us rethinking how we have been going around doing this whole S/W stuff. This is the first tank crash I have had and do not plan to have a repeat.
[quote=“JustSumGuy, post:19, topic:3704”]
I bought another 20g long tank since petco has a dollar a gallon sale. I am thinking of putting just the water and corals in this tank and nothing else… Not sure about this since I would only have a hob filter with carbon in it to help keep the metals out, no sand or rocks.
After tax time we are looking at just buying a Max 250 65g aquarium kit from that pet place to make things a little more simple and easier or just build everything the way I really want it to be.
The kit is $1800 and the way I would build if I do it my way is closer to 2500-3000. Just tired of doing this little skimp work so next time do it right or don’t do it is how I will go about it.
This whole episode has us rethinking how we have been going around doing this whole S/W stuff. This is the first tank crash I have had and do not plan to have a repeat.[/quote]
I am with you, do it rite first time. Max 250 is great system , all thou it’s limited on what methodology you choose to build and remember it’s not any different then 20g tank and will fail if not properly maintained.