WANTED: Purple up volunteers!!!

DRC Archive General Saltwater Discussion
1

For those not following the other thread:

Anyways, i sent finished speaking with a Caribsea representative who has offered to send me mutiple bottles of purple up as well as another one of their products that can be used in conjunction with it. I have two similarly sized pieces of LR in the sump of my 265g that came in together(IE collected together), are similar in shape, and similar in corraline coverage(none!!). I should have most of the stuff laying around to set up two seperate tanks(IE light, powerheads, heaters, etc). I should be able to do this myself and photo-document the results. However, if someone has the time, most of the equipment(i can help some), and wants to do this instead PLEASE let me know(IE VOLUNTEER!!!!!!!). If you have a system with minimum corraline and want to dose the product in your own tank please let me know. I only ask that you dose EXACTLY per directions and regularly document/photograph the tank with CLEAR photographs! We will put the results on the front page when its all said and done. This is similar to our REEFBUSTERS idea that was brought up before and i feel there is a lot of potential for this to lead to other things including product testing/reviews. Should be interesting!
2

Alright so whos up for purple up challenge. PBJ!

I have a 29 I can set up with bare rock.
3

I think the tanks should be completely bare with pre-established water and only a small coralline seed.

Maybe Charlie at DPA could let us use some used 5 gallon tanks and powerheads?

I’d do the experiment if i had the tanks, light, powerheads and heaters :smiley:

4

I will do waterchanges in both tanks if needed because the product does not claim to be used as a replacement for anything but in addition to regular practices(IE waterchanges, dosing, etc). I have some IO salt laying around that i will use. The salt should mix up to produce similar water parameters in both tanks and because their will be nothing in the tank but one piece of LR i dont anticipate having to do many waterchanges to keep parameters stable. However, i might have to do them to keep the Ca form precipating in the dosed tank. Because of the setup i will likely use much less than the recommended dosage at first and slowly increase if necessary.

Dose purple up in one and a 2 part (B-ionic perhaps) in the other. The idea being that if its a calcium boost than the other tank should also have a normal dosing regiment to compare to.
I would have to disagree. That would be comparing two products which is not what this is about. The initial Ca content provided by the salt mix should be more than sufficient to encourage coraline growth in the un-dosed tank. When i have time to think things through and document them i will share my plans with everyone but the overall plan as i think about it now will be to have two identical 10g tanks sitting side by side under the same light(i have a 20K handy). the water will should be close to begin with as i will use salt from the same bucket and RODI from the same source. the photoperied and intensity will be identical(same light), the temperature will be comparable and consistent(same heaters), flow will be comparable and consitent(same size, brand, and placment of powerhead), evaporation and top off should be identical(same physical location should equal same evaporated amount. top off will be done at the same time and manually by me), and the waterchanges(done as needed) will be done at the same time and in the same quantity. i will test once a week using hobby test kits(Elos that i just purchased last month) and record the results along with taking a photograph on a tripod from the same viewing angle each time. this will be all that i will have time for(will likely recruit gf to do 90% of it) and i think its more than sufficient for our purposes. if i have the time i will post and share the results regularly as i get them. i am anticipating a decent amount of product to be donated so

if anyone wants to try their own variation or simply dose their personal tank and document feel free to contact me and i will make sure you get a bottle. all that i ask is that you be objective and document your results in a clear manner. im not asking for herculian efforts here, im simply asking for consistent and accurate dosing in conjunction with clear(no fuzzy cellphone) pics of the results. you dont even have to test if you dont want to and one picture per week should be more than sufficient.

5

Sounds good to me, the reason i said bare tanks and not having rocks is that if one rock happens to have 10% more coralline on it and both grow at identical rates your going to see more in the tank with 10% more. if you place but a piece of it on a bare bottom and let it go that will be a much more precise test.

6

A possible Experimental Design for this test:

Equipment:
3 x 10g tank
1 x NO strip lighting
3 x MJ powerheads (or any 2 identical powerheads)
3 x 100W Heaters
Corraline Algae Seed

Procedure:

Set up 3 x 10g tanks side by side, all filled with artificial seawater made from the same batch of the same brand of salt.

Place a powerhead and a heater in each tank, in approximately the same location as the other tank.

Place the strip lighting across all 3 tanks so that all tanks are receiving approximately the same light wavelength and PAR (no variables introduced from different bulbs).

In a separate bottle with artificial seawater, add the corraline algae and throughly mix the algae into solution (blender might work for this).

Shake this bottle of Corraline Slurry and add a fixed amount to three different dosing cups (to ensure that all slurry’s are mixed at the same level and have the same amount of corraline in them).

Dose each cup to it’s corresponding tank.

One tank will simply be topped off, with no supplementation to act as a controll group.

One tank will be dosed with “Purple Up” at the reccomended dosage as per bottle instructions.

One will either (A) get 10% water changes weekly or will (B) have the water chemistry tested weekly and dosed to maintain a desired level of Ca, Alk, and Mg.

Some thoughts: In order to find any significance you would really need to run at least duplicates of each type or 3 replicates of this experiment. It might also be interesting to add 4 tanks to the design so that you can test both (A) & (B). The only reason this might have some different result is if there is a trace element that is used which would normally be replaced through supplementation. Or, you could also run 5 tanks, and try a combination of (A) & (B) and call it (C). It all depends on how scientific you want to be and how much you time someone wants to devote to the project. If its set up with the controll, purple up, A, B, and C with the replicates you might be able to see an interesting correlation… or maybe not. Thats the “Fun” part of statistics. If it is only with 1 replicate and no duplicates, the results won’t really be significant.

It could be a real cool project if anyone really cared that much about it ;D

7

Shawn is right… if only doing 2 tanks (all most people would have time for), you should do a baseline (no purpleup, or any other supplement) vs. purple up. Otherwise it looks like we had the same idea (I typed that up before reading shawns post)

8

Bellamy - your method would absolutely provide more rigours results. I just dont feel like the effort or time is warranted in this case

the reason i said bare tanks and not having rocks is that if one rock happens to have 10% more coralline on it and both grow at identical rates your going to see more in the tank with 10% more

in that case we can all do basic math and know that if one starts with 10% more and ends with 10% more than it didnt work ;D Im more than happy with the method and feel that the amount of precision matches the level of precision needed for such an experiment.

If anyone wants to do more they are more than welcome. I am fully capable of designing and executing an experiment that would be more robust and likely hold up better to scientific scrutiny. I can but i wont. In my mind this is really simple. The results will be obvious or they wont. I have no way to quantify the results nor do i have a desire to beyond photodocumentation. I will document my conclusion and opinion of the results and allow others to make their own based upon the data provided. It is likely that some people will find a way to dispute the results regardless of the method i choose to use.

If anyone wants a try a different method with more precision then let me know and i will be sure to give you enough product to conduct your own experiment.

9

Like I said Shawn… posted that before I saw your post, and didn’t feel like changing it all ;D Perhaps use dry base rock as the rock in the test? Then you have rock for it to colonize, but it is free of other organisms when it starts?

Again… offering suggestions on possible ways it could be done. Not saying you have to do even should bother doing it that way :stuck_out_tongue:

10

no worries! i didnt take it the wrong way ;D

11

Quick update!! Caribsea sent me a LOT of product!! Im talking three very full, very heavy, cases!!! Thank you Betsy@ caribsea!!! I have 32 bottles of purple up and 16 bottles of their buffer!! Regardless of whether or not you believe this stuff is magic i think we can all agree that it will increase your Ca! The two products used together should very easily manage the Ca and Alk needs for a smaller tank for a very long time with the only thing needed being Mg.

So, my question. What do we do with it all? I will still run the experiment previously discussed when i have the time(hopefully within the next 3-4 weeks) and Saltcreep - you are still getting your bottle. Remind me closer to the May meeting and i will bring it for you.

I dont think it will make a good raffle item considering the turnout of the seachem raffle. I was thinking that we could either auction it off for those with smaller tanks that are interested or just distribute it a bottle at a time to those who are interested. This would cover the Ca and Alk needs of anyone with a smaller tank(75g or less) for a year or more easily depending on stocking levels. Also is much easier to store and dose than 50lb sacks!

So, weigh in or give me more ideas! My house isnt big enough to be the DRC depot! I already have nano tanks stacked to my ceiling in my dining room!!

12 
LOL So shopping at your house

 I think for each raffled cude there should be a kit to go with it.
13

If you decide to distribute them, I have a FOWLR and an OOWLR tank I’d be happy to use them in. ;D

14

Could i have a bottle, i have some of one left, but i think it might be close to expiring, so i want to does the FT with something and see what happens…

15

In the past i have used aragamite powder to buffer my make up RO water. It doesnt seem to disolve very much. just enough to buffer the water to about PH 8 and 1 DKH. which is an improvement. plus the trace of MG and Sr that also disolved. Caribe Sea says Purple up is mostly aragonite PLUS a little extra Iodine and Ionic Calcium(Chloride?) to boot.

http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/additives/faq/faq_Purple_up.html

So I would say, it can give a little boost, or makeup to low demand tanks. I need to go back to adding some to my RO makeup water. I think it helped. I was adding aragomite powder, mixing and letting it settle. the clear water got a boost and i used that for makeup. I dont think it meets the demand of a heavy SPS tank. but it helps.

I’ll experiment with adding it to my 20 gallon barrel of makeup water, if you have an extra bottle. and take some test readings to post here on the forum, DKH, Ca, Mg and PH of the purple up dosed RO water. Maybe even Iodine level, if i can figure out how to calibrate and use my Seachem Iodine test kit. Ive never used it. the directions look too hard.

16

anyone that would like some please pm me with the number of bottles you want and if you want buffer as well. the are both 16oz bottles. purple up is liquid and the buffer is powder. all that i ask is that you document your use of the product in some way and share your opinions. i dont need bar graphs and measurements to the mg or anything like that. just use the product per directions and maybe snap a few pics, test your water a couple of times, and share your conclusions. i havent decided what to do with the bulk of the product so for now im only going to bring enough product to the meeting for those that pm and agree to document their experience.

17

I will try some, I don’t know how many bottles, as I don’t know how long a bottle would last?