If it truly removes “solids” and you remove chlorine and chloramine, would it make safe top-off water?
Discuss!
Yes - if it is TRUELY measuring 0 TDS in a NORMAL environment then I would think it would be acceptable to use in our tanks.
My main concern is that I don’t believe ANYTHING I read in advertising. Sure they may be able to get to 0 TDS but what are they starting at? it’s easy to get to 0 from 40 - not so much from 240 ppm.
how FAST will it make the water was my ?.. how long do the filters last…
In the commercial on television, they tell you they include a free TDS meter to prove their claims. They challenge you to begin test your tap water, a brita filtered water and theirs.
From their website:
Q. ZeroWater vs. Reverse Osmosis (RO)
A. ZeroWater® filters produce water that is a similar purity level to that produced from an RO system. Our systems also don’t waste any water and operate based on gravity. In addition, they do not need to be installed into your plumbing.
Q. Pets/people need distilled for health reasons – is this the same quality?
A. Our water gives you the same quality as distilled, without the electricity or hassle of transporting the water home from the store.
Q. Microbiological/bacteria – Reverse Osmosis vs. ZeroWater
A. Unless your RO unit is specifically designed for bacteria with something like a UV light or an ozone generator, your RO membrane will quickly be fouled with a bacteria biofilm if you have a bacteria problem. The ZeroWater systems currently sold do not have the capability to remove bacteria.
Q. Does the filter remove Chloramine?
A. We have done internal lab testing that shows our filters can reduce chloramine. However, the presence of chloramine can reduce the expected life of the filter, so if you have chloramine in your water, you may need to change your filter more often than normal.
Q. How long will the filters last?
A. Though we are lab-certified for 22.5 gallons per filter under the strictest conditions, our customers tell us that one filter will treat about 30 gallons of water if their tap water is 200 ppm TDS. The lower the TDS, the longer the filters will last. You need to test your water to know for yourself.
Browsing the site it looks like 8 filters cost $100 or $12 each. If you can get 40 gallons per filter, that’s $0.20 a gallon with no waste water.
ZeroWater water filters utilize a patented 5 stage Ion Exchange system that removes 100% of detectable dissolved solids and provides more complete filtration than conventional carbon water filters. ZeroWater is the ONLY filtered water that meets the FDA definition for purified bottled water. In side by side tests, ZeroWater scores a perfect 000 for detectable dissolved solids as measured by a TDS meter. Products include pitcher water filters, cooler systems, replacement water filter cartridges and laboratory grade TDS meters. * Filtered potable tap water tested by an independent lab (not the FDA) to meet specifically the water quality requirements for using the label "purified." †Compared to water produced by leading gravity fed filters.
How does it remove all solids through ion exchange but leaves chlorine and chlormine??? Would these not give a TDS reading? It should… Chlorine is derived from NaCl through electrolysis and is very abundant in the ocean in its natural form. Would it not be attracted as some of the other ions or do these just destroy the ion exchange system so they need to be removed first? Chlorine is a powerful oxidizer is that why?
The atomic weight of sodium is 22.990 gram, and of chlorine is 35.453 gram so it can remove a smaller particle but not the larger?
From what I gather if you take pure water and filter it with their system you get a 0 TDS 
Jon and i actually had a very long discussion about this entire subject last week. not this product, but the overall effiiciency of the process.
i havent taken the time to do the research, and i cant find the answers im looking for quickly, but here is my thought on it.
the ion component of an RODI is obviously the DI part. the filters and membrane have nothing to do with these bonds. the filters and membrane are responsible for 99% of our TDS rejection rates. this i have verified myself many, many times. some manufactures recommend installing the inline TDS meters AFTER the fitlers for your PRE reading and AFTER the DI for you POST reading. I have my POST installed after the membrane but before the DI and my TDS is always between 0-2. to me, the DI component, like Al said, breaks the chemical bonds between certain elements. the ions either have one extra or one less electron represented by a + or - and referred to as cations or anions(sp?). how important is it to break these bonds for our use? i for one dont know.
back to the positioning of the TDS probes, one other thing i have learned from doing this is that the majority of my TDS is removed by my filter array before the membrane. i understand the membrane performs the RO process, and the waster water is less than ideal because of its “brine” characteristics. i know what the word brine means, obviously, but what actually happens chemically because of this process, and the exact quality of the waste water, or more important, its suitibility for our use i dont know.
we know that it is possible to have sucess with tap water. there are accounts of reefers having high levels of sucess in scenarios where their source water is of higher quality. my questions is this.
could we simply use another filter array instead of a membrane? obviously we might go through filters faster, and our TDS likely will not be 0 depending on the quality of our source water. also, whatever makes up the “brine” that is being purged by the membrane will not be removed, but is this a bad thing? is it detrimental? do we really need 0 TDS? i look at the amount of dust and who knows what else that settles from my air. if you tank is not covered, then no matter how clean your house is, i imagine there is stuff getting into the water. everytime we vaccum, dust, clean etc stuff gets in the air. it gets pulled in to the water form the skimmer. it settles into the water form open tanks, sumps, fuges, etc. with all of that, is 0 TDS necessary? i guess, what im asking is
would a DIY water purifier consistenting of micron fitlers, a large DIY carbon filter, and a large DIY DI chamber give us water that would work just fine in 99% of our systems WITHOUT waster water?
Their filters “reduce” chloramine but at the expense of the filters wearing down faster. To answer the above question.
I’m looking for a cheap alternative to RODI that doesn’t waste water and I think I might give this a go. I think logans daddy is right that this might bring us 99% of the way and that’s all we’d need.
I’ve used tap water for months. Nothing has died. But I prefer to play it safe and use distilled.
Im not sure if your referring to the zero water filters, or the standard RODI filters, but i dont think the standard micron filter affect chorine at all. As i understand it, this is handled by the DI resin or a seperate “drinking water” filter used in lieu of a DI filter. The easiest way to handle chlorine with a DIY water filter system is with a “settling” tank. If im not mistaken, chlorine evaporates(i think?) from water if its left sitting for a short period of time(24hrs?). I certainly dont have all the answers, but im curious about any 0 waste alternative to our RODI units. RODI might be necessary in “sensitive” systems like SPS, nanos, etc but their might be an alternative between tap or RODI for less demanding systems.
Sorry for the confusion. Was too lazy to quote!
I was referring to the ZERO WATER filters that this thread is about. Someone said they don’t remove chloramine. I was pointing out that the manufacturer claims their filters do reduce chloramine levels but the filters don’t last as long.
Haven’t read everything above, but here is the bottom line for me. This product despite the claims is similar to a britta filter. It’s replacement cartridges are also similarly priced. You can not go by the standard X number of months till replacing the cartridge if you are using it continuously. It would be a pain to wait for something like this to work, most likely would leave behind things that would be harmful to a reef tank, and the cartridges in no time would cost you as much as a basic 75gpd RO unit.
[quote=“Gordonious, post:11, topic:2415”]
Haven’t read everything above, but here is the bottom line for me. This product despite the claims is similar to a britta filter. It’s replacement cartridges are also similarly priced. You can not go by the standard X number of months till replacing the cartridge if you are using it continuously. It would be a pain to wait for something like this to work, most likely would leave behind things that would be harmful to a reef tank, and the cartridges in no time would cost you as much as a basic 75gpd RO unit. [/quote]
It’s not similar to a britta filter. It’s a completely different concept. Read up on it first, sir! ;D
The cost thing is always a good talking point. This unit produces water at $0.20 a gallon. Anyone have an estimate for the cost per gallon of RODI water?
a LOT, LOT less? ;D as much as we hate to waste water, unfortunately the cost associated with the waster is very insignificant. if you look at an itemized water bill you will see that almost half of an average bill is fees associated with water delivery. dont get me wrong, wasting water SUCKS and will add up, but .20 a gallon will add up a LOT faster IMO!
I havent done any figuring, but it def looks like an RO/DI system is much cheaper to make pure water. Consumables always add up to being more expensive.
Chlorine will evaporate from water, but can’t we just add a dechlorinator? Hows that stuff work? Turn it into a salt?
There are some systems out there (and patented systems) that talk about (and maybe some that do?) re-running waste water through the system again. Would be nice to plumb into the house plumbing, except for drinking water.
In Delaware they use Chloramine in our tap water now. You need a separate chemical to treat for it. I’m sure they’ve linked Chlorine to cancer by now…
I think they’ve pretty much buried the idea of recycling the waste water in RODI units for reasons I don’t quite understand myself.
In Delaware they use Chloramine in our tap water now
do you know what the difference is? will it still evaporate water? it would be interesting to know if dechlorinators really dont work because im betting that a lot of people buy and use them thinking they are helping the water quality for their FW animals.
Most old-school dechlorinators will not remove chloramine. However, most companies that created them have updated their products to be effective in removing both chlorine and chloramine. It’s on the package and probably something the average person wouldn’t even notice. Essentially the average person is removing chloramine but thinks they bought a product to remove chlorine.
I read up on this a few months ago. Chlormine isn’t nearly as bad for you as chlorine is. In fact, I read a few posts that claim trace amounts of chlormine in you water changes will benefit the fish in the long run and act as a sterilizing agent for the water. As long as your water changes aren’t greater than 25%, it doesn’t harm the fish.
Osmosis is the passage of certain molecules through a membrane. For example, water will flow through a cell membrane. Membranes are semi-permeable, because they permit molecules that are small enough to pass while serving as a barrier to other molecules. For example, animal cells are surrounded by cell membranes which keep the contents of the cell inside but allow water to flow in and out.
If solutions of differing concentrations are separated by a semi-permeable membrane, small molecules will flow through the membrane from the side with the most to the side with the least until the amounts on both sides of the membrane are equal. Frequently, water is able to pass through a semi-permeable membrane, since it is a small molecule, but solute molecules cannot. If this is the case, water will flow from the side with the lowest concentration (more water relative to solute) to the side with the highest concentration (less water relative to solute), diluting it until both sides are equal.
Reverse osmosis works by exerting pressure on tap water(brine) through a tightly packed membrane. It is reverse as the water flows from High concentration to low concentration, and then water continously is passed along the membrane to “wash” it, which is why we have such a high waste ratio. Since it is a type of mechanical, depth filtration, it cannot remove ionically bonded molecules, which is why we must use a di filter.
Logans Daddy, look into Kati-Ani systems, they are a rechargeable, strong base/acid cation and anion RECHARGEABLE DI tapwater filtration system that is often used in europe.
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/kati_ani_di-onizer.htm
The ro membrane is key to remove alot of stuff before hitting the di. If you run pure tap through a di, it would be like using the API tap water filter, youll burn cartridges ever 30 gallons.
i am doing the same thing as this. i do not use ro/di water. i made up my own filter system. i run WELL water through a 5 micron filter, then through a 1 micron carbon filter, then through a plain old ice maker filter designed to remove tds and the like. i do not have a tds meter but would love to see what my reading is…for research if anyone has one i can use let me know. i will give the results and filter i use
if u want i have a handheld unit u can borrow