OK at the rate this thread is going I think we are going to need a January meeting demonstration on tie-dying.
YahoO
Kidding. I have actually been planning the vegetable garden going in this spring. My kids wanted to grow their own and it seemed like a good idea to be able to eat healthier and save a few bucks at the grocery store.
Shawn - the 5 gallon bucket inverted tomato planter - do you remove the lid after you hang it to let the rain keep the soil moist or do you leave it lidded to allow for a heated greenhouse effect on the root system and only remove the lid to water?
Nitrates don't kill fish, and under all but the most extreme conditions, they don't really affect the immune system.
I would be a little careful with the comment, but generally, Joe is right. I know a lot of the big FOWLR systems that have some of the fattest and healthiest fish you will ever see have nitrates in the 200+ range![/quote]
Yeah, I wasn’t trying to start a debate there, I was just saying he would be better off checking nitrites and ammonia if he thought it was a chemistry issue.[/quote]
Problem with checking ammonia and nitrites after a fish has died is that unless you’re there within an hour of the fish passing there is going to be some decomposition which is going to cause an elevated ammonia and/or trite reading.
This is one of the things that always killed me (no pun intended) about LFS and their rule about bringing in a water sample after a fish has died to get store credit - there is inevitably going to be some ammonia detectable in the water.
So unless the ammonia reading is extremely high then you really have no way of knowing if that had anything to do with the fish dying or if it was a result of the fish dying.
I know we often recommend to new hobbyists not trying to keep an anemone for at least 6 months at a minimum. Part of the reason is that it takes several months for the nitrogen cycle to level off and the beneficial bacteria to balance out and eliminate swings.
In a “new” tank being cycled by an established tank I think we would not see that much of an issue, we certainly would not see swings on an hourly basis causing a nem to move so frequently.
What about the rock and sand in the Solana? New or Re-used? I’m wondering if there isn’t something else in new rock or sand that irritates the anemones. Maybe something that dilutes or dissipates over time.
Exactamundo- In this case, the fish was still alive when he posted, so no decomposition would have started. At any rate, what I was getting at was checking these levels when you first see a problem can be beneficial.
I would imagine if my ammonia/nitrite levels were up, I’d be having bigger issues. I’ve got a decent amount of rock/sand/bioballs/filtration/things that eat dead stuff. I imagine the tank turns those into nitrates fairly quickly.
Anywho.
Nitrites undetectable by my kit
Ammonia undetectable by my kit
ph 8.0-8.2, hard to tell with this kit. Actually it could even be 8.4 damn color chart kits.
[quote=“Cdangel0, post:23, topic:962”]
What about the rock and sand in the Solana? New or Re-used? I’m wondering if there isn’t something else in new rock or sand that irritates the anemones. Maybe something that dilutes or dissipates over time.[/quote]
Ditto, I would venture to think the age of the bacteria cultures that are in these would dictate the “age” of the tank more-so.
Im guessing either way could work but leaving the lid on would more closely mimic their growing environment. Maybe several small holes so that you could simply throw the water on the lid and allow it to water slowly?
nope. all new. thats kind of my point. on paper, everything seems ideal for a BTA. good light, good flow, perfect parameters, however, im convinced that i couldnt sustain the BTA in the solana.
through my observation only, there are many factors, several mentioned above by craig and ian, that contribute to the instability of a new tank. regardless of water paramaters, some things a new hobbyist should just wait for. IMO harder to keep fish like tangs, and anemones are just two animals that have no place in a new tank. i address these two specifically because of the popularity and the fact that 2 tangs that i know of have been lossed in “newer” tanks in the last month here on the board.
maybe jon or andy can correct me if im wrong, but i thought charlie had said that he had a lot of trouble keeping tangs alive when his system at DPA was new as well?
Yeah, I wasn't trying to start a debate there, I was just saying he would be better off checking nitrites and ammonia if he thought it was a chemistry issue.
no debate. i happen to agree with you, i just didnt want anyone to get the wrong idea about the importantce of keeping nitrates low in general!
tomato systems like you are talking about are great… my parents used a system out of hte box like this one: http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=2989
they had the most amazing tomato plants I have ever seen- almost 6 ft tall!
Shawn, that DIY hydro system sounds good… i mght have to give that a shot. what hydro solutions are you planning on dosing? I take a look at all the ones avaliable and get a litle overwhealmed. havent had the time to figure out which is best: http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_master.php?category=8
Joe, ther are a ton of DIY rain collectors that you can make. many just use a 55gal trash can. here is one from a quick google search:
From what I’ve read nitrates also track fairly closely with other TDS, so testing for nitrates gives you an indication of other parameters that aren’t measurable.
I just wonder which would be more beneficial. Lots of water and cooler soil temperatures, or less water (or at least manual watering) and hotter soil temps.
I suppose a few holes drilled in the lid wouldn’t allow for that much heat loss or evaporation. I think I’ll do 2 in the spring, 1 with the lid and a few holes, 1 with no lid.
Since you guys are talking about growing things. I don’t have any experience with it horticulturally but you should check out ‘growing spheres’ or ‘watersorb’ powders. They are actually called Super Absorbent Polymers (SAPs), they absorb water by about 300x their weight and can slowly release it back out. You mix it in your soil, then water the plants half the time, but about twice as much and they slowly release it back into the soil. It’s actually the same stuff they put in diapers, pretty cool.
I’m still not convinced in anyway that there is anything wrong with my tank and that it isn’t capable of keeping a tang. I’m still pretty sure the tang was sleeping and got stuck to the side of the ph with such a force that it wedged it in there pretty good. The shape of the tang is narrow and tall and long, flat, a shape that wraps right around a circular ph intake very well.
Another option which I’m less likely to accept is the tang was never in good condition. He looked healthy did laps around the tank, pecked at things, color looked good, ate food out of my hand, very active and ate readily. Granted I’m not a marine bio or a fish vet, but he looked healthy to me. I know there’s plenty of diseases, underlying issues that aren’t visible to the human eye.
The wife and I have tried to be eco-friendly over the past year as well. I find that I put more garbage in the recycle can than the regular trash can. Delaware’s program for curbside recycling is great, you don’t have to seperate anything, it all goes in one receptacle. Here’s a link w/ more info: http://www.dswa.com/programs_curbside.asp.
Also, I have started recycling old computers. There are many toxic substances in computers, and at the rate at which technology is advancing these days, this generates a lot of waste. If anyone has any PCs/laptops that they are considering trashing, let me know, I will make sure they get recycled, for free. Of course I will take out components (not hard drives!) that I can use, but that is recycling too!!
Its funny that you mention computers. Electronics are probably responsible for some of the most toxic chemicals we put into our landfills. A little fact that shows how ass backwards the US can be somtimes are the use of these chemicals. The EU has banned the use of certain toxic chemicals in electronics. China, a large producer of electronics, can not use these chemicals for electonics exported to the EU. They also wisely choose not to use the chemicals for electronics that are consumed domestically. However, all electronics exported to the good old USA get all of the free toxic chemicals free of charge. The obivous reason is because the newer, more eco friendly chemicals are more expensive.
The US should be a trendsetter, instead our lack of commitment stalls global initiatives. Just look at the kyoto treaty. Hopefully the new adminstration will step up and play a role when the new treaty is ratified in coppenhagen.
They are actually called Super Absorbent Polymers (SAPs),
Sounds cool, i know nothing about them, but just the word polymer would suggest that they couldnt be used in organic gardening.
Shawn, that DIY hydro system sounds good.. i mght have to give that a shot. what hydro solutions are you planning on dosing?
I hadnt got that far to be honest. The link you provided actually gave me more info than i had! Ill probably look into something similar, very cheap and easy. Unfortunately, hydro and organic arent synonomous. Most hydro beds use chemical baths for nutrient uptake.
He looked healthy did laps around the tank, pecked at things, color looked good, ate food out of my hand, very active and ate readily. Granted I'm not a marine bio or a fish vet, but he looked healthy to me.
I would have said the same thing about almost every single fish i ever lost when i was new to the hobby, inculding two tangs that i should have never bought. I bought a powder brown tang when i was only several months into the hobby. It seemed to be a posterchild for tang health. Did everything you just described. She died overnight with no outward signs or symptoms. Looking back, i now know that 99% of my problems can be chalked up to three things.
1) impatience
2) lack of experience
3) immature tank
Im willing to be that almost all of us were guilty of all three. The true test is to see how many of us learn from out mistakes.
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:38, topic:962”] 1) impatience
2) lack of experience
3) immature tank
Im willing to be that almost all of us were guilty of all three. The true test is to see how many of us learn from out mistakes.[/quote]
I have been guilty of all of the above. Have definitely learned my lessons. The ones I could learn from already. Still waiting for the new ones.
I stare at my tank now and think about all of the success im having compared to 4 years ago and im amazed by how little i knew back then. Ironically, im convinced that 4 years from today ill be sitting in my same chair staring at my tank chuckling to my self over how little i knew back in 2009.