Are we just making things worse?!!!

I don’t know what hit me this morning but I am seriously thinking are we making things worse. I just put in a new pump and saw the intense water movement. Then it got me to thinking (could be the problem right there) about the amount of energy and resources we use to maintain our tanks. For me its a lot. If I do a 10-15 gallon water change every 7-10 days, 4 pumps, 6 T5 bulbs, 1 sump pump, skimmer, two thermos, and i want to add some more. How many barrels of oil am i consuming? Is my love making it worse for the future? Should I take the recycled water and poor it on my grass?

I don’t know. I am not a tree hugger by any measure this has to be gluttony. I love it…i really do…just ask my pockets but …guess just venting. No where else to do such things.

Has owning the tank made a difference in the way you and you’re kids have looked at the ocean? I would say if there is a chance one of you’re kids ends up becoming the next Jacues Cousteau then you could plug in 6 more tanks.

If you’re kids, or another relative that came by you’re place, or perhaps a next door neighbor shows any interest in you’re tanks that is you’re opportunity to make it all worth wild. Help them to understand the animals in you’re tanks just a little bit or help them to understand the complexity of the eco system and how delicate it is, so they care just a little more and you are making a difference. Public aquariums use massive amounts of electricity, but if they carry a message it may be worth it. Most people will never set foot in tropical waters and this may be the only way they can feel a real connection. To me video documentaries just don’t do it justice.

We can talk about this a lot more at the meeting. Or perhaps another time online if you can’t make them, I gotta run to work.

I agree a lot with Jon. The more knowledge and awareness you can spread the general public the better and easily offsets your power usage to run your tank. Even the knowledge you gain and the fact you share on a public board is increasing general knowledge on the subject. I don’t think overall energy usage is to blame, rather a whole host of things and that only a small portion of it. Most will disagree with that statement but thats ok.

Thank goodness oil prices fell. But if you want a zero impact reef look into solar. the prices have dropped and most states have rebates. DE rebates about half (on a 32k install they rebate 16k) and the Fed rebates $1500

Thank goodness oil prices fell. But if you want a zero impact reef look into solar. the prices have dropped and most states have rebates. DE rebates about half (on a 32k install they rebate 16k) and the Fed rebates $1500

There it is! Thats what i was hinting at in one of jon’s early post. Electricity isnt bad people, electricity produced by the destruction of non renewable resources is bad.

IMO you have to pick your battles and do your part. I think there are two approaches. You can either be a gung ho tree hugging hippie and attempt to annihilate your carbon footprint. Or, you can do small things to make less of an impact. Purchase a more fuel efficient car, recycle, take reusable canvas bags to the grocery store, etc, etc. Although little, these things will make a difference. Ive decided that my next house will have solar, although with my luck there will be no rebate when im ready to buy :-(" A friend of mine recently went off the grid and his home equity loan payment for the solar installation is less than his electric bill was! Something to think about.

The way i cope with the ecological impacts our tanks make is twofold. First is all of the things that jon mentioned above. Secondly, i want to be like my hero Kaptken. I would be willing to wager with all of the coral anf fish he makes available to the hobby that his balance sheet is in the black. I want to get to the point where im producing more livestock for the hobby than im aquiring. Now that, my friends, will make a difference. Think about it, Ken will make available almost 80 clowns to the hobby that wont need to be wild caught! Thats impact.

Not to call anyone out, but i think its ironic that two people that have brought this topic up on seperate occasions drive SUV’s. Pick your battles!!

I have to agree with everything that logans daddy said. I was debating on if I should add something to this post earlier since I dont have a very rosy picture of humanities future, but I will say this–

if you like reefing stay with it, and try to give something back when you can as was mentioned above. in the end our society really needs to make major changes before we create our own extinction, but everyone getting out of reefing wouldnt be more than a drop in the bucket.
stop reading here if you dont want more downer opinions…

everyone wants to be “green” these days but very few people are really doing anything that is going to make a difference. I say “green” because many products in my opinion are just margionally better than their “nongreen” counterparts. if people really want to make a difference, why not start with one of the most simple things anyone can do? drive 55mph- the peak efficency for almost every car. what I have found is that going truly green often includes making changes from our convinience based lifestyle. every little thing does count some, but the things that will really make a change include inconvinence- better driving habits, major companies moving beyond profit(check out “who killed the electric car”), livign closer to work in smaller houses that are cheaper to heat and cool, and most of all, politicians who give a crap( if you wanna puke, do a google search about the anti environmental changes Bush is sneaking in this week with his midnight laws… its sickening…). I would really like to believe that there is headway being made, but if you really look at things its not happening. its going to take something more major for people to move from “green” to GREEN… the question is if humanity as we know it will be around after the major event. exiting my soapbox…

They are all green ideas. You use the buzz word of 2008 “green” and you make green.

Eric - i agree 100%. Going green is not simply wearing a tshirt with some leftwing hippie logo. Its about making sacrifices of convience. It shouldnt be, but it is. About a year ago i traded my LARGE diesel truck in for a compact V4 Xover. Its not the most fuel efficient car, but its more efficient than most. It can be a gloomy situation. Everytime a saw a McCain add for domestic drilling i would get nauseas. Your example of the eletric car is a good example of how corporate greed permeates all aspects of society. A similar example is how food manufactures charge more money for “light” versions of their food. Since when did it cost more to put less into a food? Regular versions of food are on sale constantly at deep discounts while light, healthier versions of the same food rarely go on sell? How come? Simple, fat people will by more product than thinner, healthier people. Its a simple choice for health minded people of means, but what about people of less means that need to stretch that $20? Luckily, im optimistic about the future. As the new generations rotate into office, i think our environmental policies will change. The US certianly wont be leading the way, but luckily not every country can afford to be as gluttonous as us. Lets see what Obama does at Coppenhagen. Lets not hope its Kytoto II.

Al - you hit the nail on the head. “green” is much more about marketing than it is about the environment. A little off topic, but heres a quick little sidebar. I was at panero bread the other day with a friend. they have a new tortilla chicken sandwich they are advertising all over the place. right on the main menu for the description of the sandwich it says “horomone free chicken”. I literaly laughed out loud. What is this world coming to? Mind you, no other chicken on the menu board was described as being hormone free…hmmmm?

By the way, environmental projects have been brought up before as an option for club activity with very little applaud. I for one am more than interested to put my money where my mouth is and use our tiny organzation to make a small difference.

Companys are spending more money and energy going green then then net savings to the environment. If we all do a little it will be better for the environment. However till its a government backed requirement it will never happen to the extent that is needed.
Even if global warming is “made up science” as some have suggested renewable energy will still be better for us all in many ways. (health, cost, etc) As Ken aka Eco Ken pointed out they are already drawing off less oil from existing wells. They are drying up. I prefer we start the transition now instead of suddenly finding we have a couple of years left till oil is gone.

Also this makes me laugh

These are bad for the environment. Yes they use less watts then a conventional incandescents. For a given light output, CFLs use between one fifth and one third of the power of equivalent incandescent lamps. Lighting accounts for approximately 9% of household electricity usage. But what do people do with them when they burn out? These bulbs contain mercury and the majority end up in land fills (4.0 mg per bulb) While not a lot per bulb, multiply how many lights are in your house and times that by the number of households in the US. OUCH.

Its not only about making the product, there is education and putting programs in place to handle implementation.
Not a lot of green in this sentence unless you are just making the products or bulb.

To really take off in the US, green has to be easy, cheap, and popular.

To really take off in the US, green has to be easy, cheap, and popular.


The problem is that change is the bane of the corporate power stucture. If i was an evil oil conglomerate with annual profits breaching 40 billion dollars, what am i going to do with my money? First im going to excessively pay all of my evil executives. Next, i think ill spend a few billion lobbying politicians and carmakers to make “fossil fuel friendly” legislation and to make sure that detroit keeps on putting out “green” hybrids with their amazing 30mpg epa ratings. Awesome. Oh wait, i have a little left over. Let me produce propaganda commercials that show how awesome we are. Maybe we can show minority engineers writing complex mathematical formulas on a dry erase board and have them preach our greatness? Yeah, that works!

there is NO way for me to start a new thread on the general saltwater disc forum. I want to but I cannot! no “new thread” button.
i have tried all day to begin my thread, and maybe others are having the same issues.
my question:
don’t have any equip, but i think i understand the basics. can i start with a small aio biocube , or is it better to go larger, say a 60 gal, and begin sw that way? is a smaller one much more difficult to keep in proper parms?

what does taking live rock do to the ecosystems it’s removed from?

Hello all,
I cannot post a new thread but have emailed a few members… I have a 54 corner… mixed tank… looking to go more reef.
I would like to go to next months meeting, do we have a date established?
Hopefully talk to everyone soon,

Who went to Dr Macs when He talked about this? The answer surprised me

moliken/ray … :Welcome)
Look for “New Topic” to start new threads … it’s @ the top or bottom of the forum

if you’re starting out, in general bigger is better … slower swings in water chemestry

not sure what the Dec date is … al (a1amap) will chime in on that

First let me say

fish-welcome to DRC

All the settings are correct click on the attachment below to see were the new Thread button is located.

wow, im glad im not the only whos worried.

moliken- im no expert, but the overall opinion that i have heard is that live rock tends to be a fairly renable resource. of course I recognize that most resources are not as renewable as we would like( hence my general outlook…), but as I understand it LR is usually collected after strong storms have dislogged it from the reef. with many countries now banning its collection much of that impact will probably slow. other sources of live rock are farmed- literally- often in the US, rock is quaried then dumped in the ocean to cure and then brought back out for suppliers. not sure what impact that can have though, as dumping in the ocean is rarely a good idea, but at least its ca carbonate.

Al- definitely agree on what the real green is…

I wish I could be more optimistic about our future, but I just cant see it right now for many reasons- environmental, sociental, intelectual… I tried to bury my head in the sand for the last few years, but I cant really do it anymore. the only solution that I can really see is to become more self sufficient. its going to take some time to put together, but my Fiancee and I are becomming more aquanted and comitted with the idea. I am really starting to believe that its the only way to truly make an impact as well as to unplug from the systems in place… passive objection if you will.

I just dont see americans sacraficing convinence. the really sad thing is that most americans dont even stop to think where there breakfast came from anymore- serioisly stop to think where each component came from- coffee, oranges, eggs, milk, bacon… many of the products came from across the country or globe to convinently munch on each day…I cant even begin to visualize the amount of fuel that went into shipping these products to get to my plate. im not sayin that the system is going to come to a grinding halt, but if it doesnt slow soon I think we will be beyond the tipping point…

oh yea,
“Maybe we can show minority engineers writing complex mathematical formulas on a dry erase board and have them preach our greatness? Yeah, that works!”

I love that
I worked at Dupont for 4yrs and they really loved that tactic. I wish Delwareans knew how polluted most dupont sites are- its unbelievable! they run a contunous furnace to dispose of lab waste that has been running nearly continously for 50yrs. if they stop burning, the gradfathering permit expires and they can no loger burn toxic waste… unreal, then Bush stops by and gives them a big high five for working on fuels cells again…

Wow, I’m gone 2 days and I miss out on all sorts of juicy gossip :p.

I have to say though… I feel that Al is right. As DRC officers we have to appear to be non biased… that means we dont promote any one store. There is a DPA forum and a DPA user name that can be used to announce all the deals you want. I dont think any officer should be endorsing any store in the public forums.