I was talking with Marty and it looks like the PAR meter was only rented out one time since we purchased it. Im a little surprised seeing how i can remember so many people over the last couple of years complaining about the club not having a program like this in place. I also recall several members posting and commenting about how badly they wanted to use one and how they would be the first in line to rent it. Im bringing this up for two reasons. First, i would be very reluctant to purchase anymore equipment for this purpose if this is going to be typical of the results. Second, i want to find out if there is any particular reasons why anyone feels that participation is so low. If there is a specfic reason that has kept you from renting the PAR meter please share it with me. I fully realize that the security deposit for most members might seem high but i wouldnt think that would be an issue since we accept check.
I would really like feedback. If this thread gets buried without comment and rental does not pick up i will be more than disappointed. I can honestly say that purchasing new equipment would no longer be a priority at that point. I feel that we(Bill, Ellen, Marty, and myself) did something pretty special for this club, something that was aksed for by many members many times and the response has been pretty ho hum. I fully realize that a PAR meter is not something everyone needs all the time but i want to be sure that purchasing equipment like this is a worthwhile investment. Please let me know what you think!
This is what i expected from the rate of rental on this item. Yes the club wanted it and the club got it, but I for one was in hopes of a sort of “eh if the guy with it is in my neighborhood i’ll buy him lunch and have him stop by for a quick reading” opposed to “I’ll rent that item for 30 dollars and use it once”
I respect the ideal that a high rental cost will cover the anti-theft clause, and that makes perfect sense. But here are your results, everyone wanted a reading for free at the end of the day.
Even more, some people think that PAR is the end all reading for corals. Yet PAR is more of a reading compared to snowfall per hour, how much snow fell in the hour? how much par fell in the minute? same thing… the end result that is the thing to figure out is the “storm total” … how much PAR per minute per day is falling, thus a photoperiod assessment is needed for total daily PAR. not just the " per minute"
ok this post was off topic a bit but its the Irish in me, and the scotch!
welll really you have 2 options…rent it or buy it. unless your friend has access to one, you are covered. but who realy buys something you only need once in a blue moon. maybe a lesser rental fee is the answer. with a deposit to cover damages and theft your cost is really small per usage. all though i am not really concerned with par, some of us maybe really corious or trying different configurations to get the numbers where they want them.
There were a few members who were on the campaign trail for this item. I would have guessed that at least those members would have rented it by now. It may be that our membership has evolved into somewhat more entry level reefers who have not yet found the value in this item. I like the idea, but have no use for it (FOWLR). I would be interested in seeing the rentals continue, possibly with a phosphate monitor as discussed back in July 09.
phosphate monitor would be more useful to me personally, and i will be renting the par sometime in the next few months. I feel the rental is a little steep. I can see the security deposit. But, yes the item is expensive, and yes it does get worn out. But it could go through 100 rentals and still be perfect working condition. thats 3k from rental fees. And i agree with jocephus, a lot of people are entry level and might not have a use or care to know what par is.
also, the rental period, 3 days makes it hard to get it and get it back with everyones hectic lives. A week rental would be more feasible. Yes there is one now but your paying even more for a week.
Well, its a good meter and should last for a long time. I think, in time a bunch of us will be interested in renting it. I, for one , would think the most oportune time would be when we are about to change light bulbs. We can get a reading with the old, worn out lamps, and then a reading under the brand new, possibly different spectrum/brand lamps, and make some notes for comparison.
I think it would be very helpful if we could set up a thread and or spread sheet to post our results. we could list things like depth of water for readings, the old lamp types and age and readings, the new lamp brand and readings. and stuff like that. I think we could build a mini data base something like Sanjay’s. he has the spectral ratings of most lamps and we can build a local data base of par at various depths…
I would have guessed that at least those members would have rented it by now. It may be that our membership has evolved into somewhat more entry level reefers who have not yet found the value in this item.
This was my thought as well. Good point about the experience level of our members. Something i hadnt considered.
I would be interested in seeing the rentals continue, possibly with a phosphate monitor as discussed back in
Agreed and my reason for this post. Rental fees will finance new equipment. Im pretty confident that the PAR meter was more requested than a photometer and that is why we bought it first. If things were to not change with our existing equipment i would have a lot of reluctance using club funds to purchase another $300 piece of equipment.
I, for one , would think the most oportune time would be when we are about to change light bulbs. We can get a reading with the old, worn out lamps, and then a reading under the brand new, possibly different spectrum/brand lamps, and make some notes for comparison.
Great points Ken. This is certainly why this meter is valuable to almost all hobbyiest regardless of level.
also, the rental period, 3 days makes it hard to get it and get it back with everyones hectic lives. A week rental would be more feasible
This makes the most sense to me and is what i was thinking when i asked for feedback. If im convinced that this is impacting the rental for this item i have no problem asking the board to consider changing the rental to $15/week.
This is what i expected from the rate of rental on this item. Yes the club wanted it and the club got it, but I for one was in hopes of a sort of "eh if the guy with it is in my neighborhood i'll buy him lunch and have him stop by for a quick reading" opposed to "I'll rent that item for 30 dollars and use it once"
Tim, im not even sure how to respond to this logic.
As far as your snowfall analogy, are you aware that this meter can be programmed to take tests and log the results at preprogrammed intervals? I believe(if i remember) that it has the capacity to log 100 readings. IMO this meter could give the average hobbyiest all the data he needs about his lighting and then some depending on how he he utilizes the meter.
Being my tank is 3 mth old i realize that it going to be up and down and etc and a meter for me at this point is pointless. But i have a idea for making money for the club being there alot of us rookie with gimp test kits like api and etc charge 5 bucks for water testing. Hell i would pay it.
Jocephus may a great point a phosphate monitor would rock.
Have we ever thought about fund raising for this equip?
Like perhaps doing a Salt water show or a casino night ?
A casino night i have a super super super hooked up for that and it could be done cheap
or a fishing tourament catch and release wow i have alot of ideas.
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:1, topic:2712”]
First, i would be very reluctant to purchase anymore equipment for this purpose if this is going to be typical of the results. Second, i want to find out if there is any particular reasons why anyone feels that participation is so low. If there is a specfic reason that has kept you from renting the PAR meter please share it with me. I fully realize that the security deposit for most members might seem high but i wouldnt think that would be an issue since we accept check.[/quote]
My :TWOCENTS for your “Second”:
(1) Ken has a great point. I think the most opportune time would be when a hobbyist changes bulbs. For me, personally, that’s what I’d be waiting for.
(2) A week (or perhaps even two) rental makes WAY more sense (to me) than a 3-day rental. Particularly for those down state.
(3) A photometric phosphate test would be really valuable. It may have been “second choice” during the discussions we had a while back on the boards, but it was a very close 2nd.
Having led off addressing your “second”, let me now address your “first”:
Another (somewhat) local club also has an equipment rental program like this one. Which seems to be running with success. Perhaps you could reach out to them for some “lessons learned”. Personally, I think this is the type of thing a club should concentrate on - benefits for their members. My hat’s of to you guys for making it happen. I’d hate to see the steam lost because things are starting slowly. Give it some time. Tweek things if you have to. And multiply wisdom with those who have already went down this road.
Hey a texas holdem tourament with about 5 blackjack tables shoot it can be done we are non-profit a licence is cheap. Then you have a table open for cash 1-2 game the rake is 10 percent or 6.00 average when i deal cash games i can deal on average 60-80 hands a hour. i have a friend that does this and i deal for her on weekends she wouldnt have a issue with us using the equipment or chips but we would have to pay for dealer or we use our own
This of this as well most of this fundraiser i go to have a slient auction like trips footbal stuff etc etc that a big money maker as well and beer / soda food tables. Mr President we can make the money i will even donate my service to make it happen
well, for me coming, upstate twice in 3 days is a real hassle. i don’t object to the cost of renting it, but the time and excess gas is an issue.
for a week’s rental, count me in, sign me up, let me know. i’ll bring the $ and a check.
yeah i coulda got it at the meeting, but things were hectic. after this new round of snow, i’ll come on up and get it. lmk when it’s available.
"Hey a texas holdem tourament with about 5 blackjack tables shoot it can be done we are non-profit a licence is cheap. Then you have a table open for cash 1-2 game the rake is 10 percent or 6.00 average when i deal cash games i can deal on average 60-80 hands a hour. "
a hand lasts on average 40 seconds to a minute??? mucho folding
Agreed. My instinct was that the rental period was a the main issue. Im going to make a proposal for the board to vote on shortly and will post when i have an update.
wowza. u gonna be a dealer when we have table games in De? i played yesterday [at work we have a lunchtime game] and flopped 2 pair three times in a row on the small, big blind specials [6,8, then 9,2] then dealer [ended w/a boat], and still lost in the end!
I will post more comments later, but wanted to agree with extending the duration of time at least by a couple more days. Fact is currently if there is no list of people that want to borrow it the club doesn’t need it back instantly for someone else to use it.
That being said if it sits around someone’s house too long it is less likely to be respected and more likely to get lost, stolen, or damaged. I would purpose we bump it to 5 days.
Just curious. Why haven’t we seen the officers posting their PAR ratings?
[quote=“Jocephus, post:5, topic:2712”]
reefers who have not yet found the value in this item[/quote]
I believe this will change as people start to post their results and curiosity will take over. My results alone will convince most that they may be wasting money and not taking care of their animals. I apologize for speaking up and saying everyone should post their results once we start using this thing and then well… I’m the only one that has rented and I have not made a post yet. I will try to do so asap.
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:8, topic:2712”]
Good point about the experience level of our members. Something i hadnt considered.[/quote]
This could easily be an incentive to bring in more experienced reefers to the club such as Mike C. That being said, while his interested was peaked when I ran into him at an LFS and mentioned, the new meter he may be deterred by the large check he would have to write seeing as he hasn’t been an active member recently.
Shawn I have to agree with the one point Ted made. Hats off to you and the officers for getting this meter available to the club. And don’t take any offense at all to the response so far. If everyone keeps saying the best time to use it is when you change the bulbs then it wouldn’t be surprising if people were waiting for that time. There also is very little written on this forum about the benefit to using the meter. I for one also have been more busy worrying about the weather and power outages then my PAR ratings.
I will try to get a move on in posting my results in a beneficial manner. Reefers please take a look at them as you will likely be a shocked as I was about how much of a waste of money running old bulbs is and how much MH SUCK! ( ok Shawn you can argue the second point if and only if you post your par ratings under your MH )
shawn, at meetings are we making money, or losing money. The raffle last time, there was over 100 tickets. While this is a little more than usual thanks to someone lol, but thats still 400+ dollars. Does that cover the cost for food and raffles. And does the club have like a monthly expense report where common members can see the growth in the account, and what we currently have stored away.
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