Its not so much about the bioload, its the fish interacting with each other. In your case, yeah it is the bioload since you have corals. People are mixing a lot of angels now a days, the old general rule of 1 per tank is long gone. Its all about how you mix it. I have plenty of experience mixing angels, and the most important one is having a backup plan. The sohal is currently in my sump while my other new fish get acclimated to my 210g (7x2x2). Then the passer and sohal will go back in (passer is at my brothers house in a holding tank). If all goes well, I have credit to get another CXI emperor that will be added last, and the largest. All these fish will be ok in the 210g for now, but not for long, I know that. I am already planning an upgrade to atleast a 400g (96x36x27) but I don’t even think that will be big enough. If I buy a house in the next year, I will be going 600-1000g and will probably add a bluering angel to the mix, totaling 5 large angels.
From what I have noticed (not only in my tanks but almost everyone elses tanks) angels aren’t NEARLY as aggressive as tangs. Tangs are much more territorial, my french and queen get along fine, every once in awhile the queen will give a half assed chase (more of a fake shrug) to the french and the french moves a long. My tangs though will fight! Especially that sohal! Good luck with the 180g and the fish mix, it will be interesting to see how everything turns out! I would start thinking about an upgrade soon though, some of those fish get huge!
would of thought so too, but the nitrates never even come close to breaching 5ppm. and the tang thing has been trial and error. a little chasing here or there, but no damage at all. im not so sure that they will ALL outgrow a 180. u might be a little over estimated on some of these guys. sailfins reach 15 in max, hardly oversized in a 180. same with the sohal, orange shoulder, and naso. the naso getting the largest at around 18" should have no problem housed in a 180 gal tank. (as well with the queen, around 18" iirc) i know they wont ALL be able to house in this tank full grown, but no single fish in the tank right now will outgrow it by far. i have 225 gal of volume and a 6’ tank…
DPS is right man. almost none of those fish should be kept longterm in a 6’ tank by themselves, let alone all together. its not a matter of bioload, its a matter of giving the fish room to diffuse aggression and stress. they are all VERY active swimmers and are going to need room. they all look relatively small now and im not completely surprised thats its working for you, but almost anything will work for a while.
i agree with you about fish being individuals, and i dont wont to sound like a dick, but you will never be able to keep that many tangs in a tank that small longterm without a LOT of problems. to be honest, i think you would have your hands full just trying to keep the queen and sohal in a 6’ tank for more than 2 or 3 years. fish are my first love, and i was keeping FOWLR and aggressive tanks years before i bought my first coral >LOL<
to give you a reference, i will be stocking my 265g probably within a month or so. i plan to only keep 6 large fish. 2 angels, 2 tangs, and 2 “nice” triggers. thats it, and im not convinced that i wont have problems long term. my tank is much larger, my filtration is top of the line and overkill, and im plan to keep more docile fish. i also plan to diffuse a lot of aggression with about 20 smaller reef fish.
i completely understand the allure and desire to keep some of these fish. however, IMO its much better to narrow it down to the number thats appropriate for your system and let the fish thrive than to be forced to play musical chairs with your fish like so many other hobbyists do.
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:42, topic:1565”]
they all look relatively small now and im not completely surprised thats its working for you, but almost anything will work for a while.
i agree with you about fish being individuals, and i dont wont to sound like a (hot dog), but you will never be able to keep that many tangs in a tank that small longterm without a LOT of problems.[/quote]
[quote=“fishguy9, post:35, topic:1565”]
i have a buddy down in greenwood that has 4 LARGE tangs that he kept in a 150 along with a good size foxface. the sohal ruled the tank, but everyone was happy and healthy. he actually took down the 150 and put all of them into a 75! not that i would EVER recommend this, but they r actually doing fine! not nearly enough room imo, but the aggression doesnt seem to be posing a problem.[/quote]
years… been fine for years…
i guess, saying “never” is pretty conclusive on an issue you can only base your “opinion” on VERY limited info. limited by only your own experience and an accumulation of others u have talked to, or read their experiences. (still not enough to conclude that it can NEVER be done)
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:42, topic:1565”]
fish are my first love, and i was keeping FOWLR and aggressive tanks years before i bought my first coral >LOL<[/quote]
mine as well, 20 years now. think i was 8 when i was breeding blue acaras in my first 29 gal tank, bought with money i made catching feeders at the store all summer…
i guess, saying "never" is pretty conclusive on an issue you can only base your "opinion" on VERY limited info. limited by only your own experience and an accumulation of others u have talked to, or read their
experiences. (still not enough to conclude that it can NEVER be done)
your right, never is a strong word…but i said never without problems. i guess it also has a little to do with what your willing to tolerate problem wise and what your idea of a sucessful thriving tank is. and i dont mean you specifcally, i mean in general. some people have no problem putting fish in time out, or rearranging rockwork, or having fish with fins that are constantly shredded, or the dozens of other problems that will happen to one degree or another. also, i meant never in a small tank(i.e, 75g or 6’) ive seen plenty of 500-600g with twice as many tangs with little to no problems whatsoever.
seriously, i wish you the best, and would love to see it work for you. if so, it would be a very rare exception. im looking forward to progress shots and to see how it goes.
i dont want you to think im bashing, im not. im all for advanced aquarist trying animals that are hard to keep. the only way the hobby will grow is for people with the know how to try their hand at keeping some of these animals. ive done a lot of things that the average hobbyist would probably recommend to not do with great success. however, i also went into with plenty of knowledge and a well prepared and suitable biotope.
im also not a badge wearing member of the tang police. i keep a regal tang in a 75g and im comteplating adding a second appropriate tang shortly. a lot of people would flame me for that.
its just my :TWOCENTS, nothing more, nothing less. i would love nothing more than to be proved wrong! show me pics of all of the same fish big, fat, fully colored, and fins intact a 2 years from now and ill eat crow ;D
WOA… CROW? not sure where that is going…
know i saw something about pink clams in another post. lOl
just to conclude, i know im am asking for it. but to appease a somewhat uneducated aquarist… (the wife) i will perform the impossible!!! (well, try to anyhow) i ALWAYS appreciate advice/input. even a little debate from time to time.
know i saw something about pink clams in another post.
>LOL< Im glad to know that i wasnt the only one that had to supress a smirk...i was going to post a reply but im trying my best to stay out of trouble on the boards ;D
Tank is looking good BJ. I see the coraline is starting to take off ;D
You have quite an impressive fish collection. I would love to have a 300 + system someday so I can keep a few of the larger angels, but I have my hands full with the tanks I have right now.
thanks boss… u know me, gotta stay true to the handle. lolol think i am gonna do some light experimenting… i think there is way too much white. im thinking to switch the 2 10k pc’s to either full actinic or 50/50’s. (just dont know which way to go yet.) will grab some more pics after the switch.
[quote=“fishguy9, post:50, topic:1565”]
thanks boss… u know me, gotta stay true to the handle. lolol think i am gonna do some light experimenting… i think there is way too much white. im thinking to switch the 2 10k pc’s to either full actinic or 50/50’s. (just dont know which way to go yet.) will grab some more pics after the switch.[/quote]
If it was my tank I would throw a couple of T5 HO retros on there and put some ATI Blue + in the mix. The colors under these bulbs are awesome. JMHO.
PS you should check your mag, i always find mine is low, esp if you dose kalk, i know mag plays a role in coraline growth. plus its always fun to dose mag and watch your shrimp molt the next day
[quote=“IanH, post:58, topic:1565”]
PS you should check your mag, i always find mine is low, esp if you dose kalk, i know mag plays a role in coraline growth. plus its always fun to dose mag and watch your shrimp molt the next day[/quote]
mag is only related to coralline growth the same as it is to coral growth. the less mag you have the more the calc will percipitate causing your corals or coralline to not be able to utilize the calcium.
without magnesium calcium is worthless.
on a side note, magnesium is not a factor in shrimp molting, shrimp do not utilize calcium for their shells.
bottom line is, calcium is porus and the chemical make up in the alk bonds to the calcium quickly and percipitates thus losing the calc from the water the mag. blocks the ability for that process to happen keeping the calc in the water column to be used by the calcium dependant organisms
[quote=“IanH, post:58, topic:1565”]
PS you should check your mag, i always find mine is low, esp if you dose kalk, i know mag plays a role in coraline growth. plus its always fun to dose mag and watch your shrimp molt the next day[/quote]
mag is only related to coralline growth the same as it is to coral growth. the less mag you have the more the calc will percipitate causing your corals or coralline to not be able to utilize the calcium.
without magnesium calcium is worthless.
on a side note, magnesium is not a factor in shrimp molting, shrimp do not utilize calcium for their shells.
bottom line is, calcium is porus and the chemical make up in the alk bonds to the calcium quickly and percipitates thus losing the calc from the water the mag. blocks the ability for that process to happen keeping the calc in the water column to be used by the calcium dependant organisms[/quote]
Both corals and coraline build part of their skeletal structure with magnesium (it’s not just calcium). Some coralines can have up to 4.4% by weight of their structure made up of magnesium. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm
Magnesium does play a part in shrimp molting at least in my tank.
