I don't see any implications, either implicit or explicit that state the idea above. (No one said this) And to add, all postings should be read, not simply one which might have been misconstrued or misunderstood.
I believe you may have missed my point. i want implying anything. i was actually responding to Joe's and Ted's post because i thought that my comments were the one's that were considered inappropriate. In all honesty, they probably were inappropriate considering my status with the club but i believe in transparency and will not edit my post.
my point was this. its not as important to believe whether or not we are causing global climate changes as it is to recognize the impact that we do have. i dont believe that anyone would deny those things which are so obvious to so many of us. i was simply trying to get the post on track and have us recognize the things that we all do agree with. because, as i mentioned, if we did the things that would directly alleviate our negative impact on the environment we would also be reducing addressing the factors that do contribute to climate changes. i was not implying that anyone in this club would throw garbage out their window ;D not even close. i was simply stating that i do not feel that we need to “respect” everyones opinion. everyone has a right to thier opininion but if their opinion is reckless or harmful i believe we have a responsiblity to confront that person and try to educate them. nothing more.
If I may, I also expected a little more from the officers of our club.
Because im the only officer that posted in this thread i would really appreciate it if you would clarify that comment. As far as i can recaill, not once did i comment on any of your thoughts, opinions, or posts.
i do know that i have honestly apologized for and removed my unnecessary criticisms on religion. but to claim, for whatever reason, that humans have only a minimal/temporary/easily reversible impact on the environment is foolish. simply because of our burgeoning numbers we strain the system. simply because of our waste output we are creating problems.
i raised the environmental impact of excess meat consumption [feed, waste, pollution, deforestation, disease, etc] last year and was roundly criticized. but the older members here [hey ken] remember a time when you could buy a burger or a steak and not ever have to worry about e coli or buy a chicken and know that it wasn’t filled with antibiotics or catch a tuna and not have to be fearful of mercury poisoning. these issues exist today, not because we do eat meat, but because there are too many of us eating too much of it.
the land used for growing cattle [substitute pigs or chickens], the feed going into them, the transportation of the meat from where they come from to mcdonalds, their farts, and their waste are all related to the human population explosion.
oh and so is global climate change.
Shawn, my comments were not directed at your (or anyone’s) posts specifically, just the direction of the thread. I accept that we may have differences of opinion on many many topics on these boards. I think that while we may disagree, it is important to recognize the difference between criticizing ideas and criticizing people for their ideas. If the best two people can do is to call each other idiots, then they are both correct.
no worries. i acknowledge that my original post might have been a little abrasive and your post was completely appropriate. i only mentioned it to clarify some things for jcling.
[quote=“Jcling, post:20, topic:2750”]
I’m not sure, I know that Lindsay is the one who told me about the smells when I got down here 4 years ago and she thought that they came from the plant as well. She had a conversation with one of her environmental biology professors at the University of Delaware (whether everyone thinks they are creditable or not) and he agreed with her that the smells could very well be coming from the plant. We have been wanting to find out how to look into the matter together, but every avenue we have looked down requires big titles behind your name, or an age requirement to be noticed/heard.
I would like to recognize that my first post might have given people the incorrect opinion as to what I feel about the general climate of our environment, and our impact. I would urge those who might be focusing on my first post to read the second post. If there are still misunderstandings, (even if there are not, people will still focus on the first misunderstood post) I am more than willing to clear them up.
If I may, I also expected a little more from the officers of our club.[/quote]
interesting, it’s odd i’ve never noticed the odor. you could first try contacting delaware’s chapter of stream watch. data could be complied from their data bases listing the pH of the surrounding tributaries. i know for a fact that white clay creek does not presently have an acidification issue, the aquatic wildlife is extremely abundant. i had a friend doing electro-fishing surveys on portions of the stream last summer. i also fly fish along the stream every fall and spring, all positive indicator species are present, ephemeroptora, plectoptera and trichoptera. from my observations given the degree of human sprawl, pollution has yet to completely effect the stream negatively. i’m assuming you could find out exactly what is manufactured at the FMC plant via some source on the internet. find out what the company is producing then you could deduce the possible industrial manufacturing procedures and the potential by-products. this information might be obtained through the EPA.
Agreed about white clay Lindsay and I fish there a lot and its a great fishing area (if you get to know the creek :)) Last year there were A LOT of stocked rainbows (and very good sized as well) from what we saw. Year before that lots of browns, but all great fishing for a local creek! (Lots of rock bass and even a few small mouth, so you know its gotta be better than some of the creeks in my PA area that cant sustain the life of blue gills lol.
[quote=“Jocephus, post:23, topic:2750”]
Shawn, my comments were not directed at your (or anyone’s) posts specifically, just the direction of the thread. I accept that we may have differences of opinion on many many topics on these boards. I think that while we may disagree, it is important to recognize the difference between criticizing ideas and criticizing people for their ideas. If the best two people can do is to call each other idiots, then they are both correct. [/quote]
+1 I’m not singling anyone out, either. Just the tone of a few posts.
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:16, topic:2750”]
Well i stand by my post if these secondary comments are directed at my post.
Respecting someone’s opinion and respecting ignorance is two different things.[/quote]
Glad all I’m worth to you is as a “secondary comment” …
And I’m not asking you or anyone else to respect anything … I’m simply asking for some civility to be exercised … that’s the basis for a community to survive. As Joe said, “I think that while we may disagree, it is important to recognize the difference between criticizing ideas and criticizing people for their ideas.”
Agreed. Your post as well as Joe’s were completely warranted and appreciated. My comments were not directed at any individual but at an ideology. I have yet to master the art of making a clear point! Maybe one of these days!! ;D
[quote=“Jcling, post:27, topic:2750”]
Agreed about white clay Lindsay and I fish there a lot and its a great fishing area (if you get to know the creek :)) Last year there were A LOT of stocked rainbows (and very good sized as well) from what we saw. Year before that lots of browns, but all great fishing for a local creek! (Lots of rock bass and even a few small mouth, so you know its gotta be better than some of the creeks in my PA area that cant sustain the life of blue gills lol.[/quote]
damn right i have a few unknown holes as well. i’ve caught hold-over trout into august just depends on the year and the climate.
[quote=“Jcling, post:27, topic:2750”]
Agreed about white clay Lindsay and I fish there a lot and its a great fishing area (if you get to know the creek :)) Last year there were A LOT of stocked rainbows (and very good sized as well) from what we saw. Year before that lots of browns, but all great fishing for a local creek! (Lots of rock bass and even a few small mouth, so you know its gotta be better than some of the creeks in my PA area that cant sustain the life of blue gills lol.[/quote]
damn right i have a few unknown fishing-holes as well, i pulled out a 10lb bass believe it or not last spring.i’ve also caught hold-over trout into august just depends on the year and the climate.
[quote=“Jcling, post:20, topic:2750”]
We have been wanting to find out how to look into the matter together, but every avenue we have looked down requires big titles behind your name, or an age requirement to be noticed/heard.[/quote]
Jcling,
Not that I want to see this thread continue forever, lOl but have you considered researching FMC’s toxic release inventory data? The EPA tracks emmissions by all manufacturers. You may have to do some looking, but whatever is being released is (in theory) recorded there. Start by googling EPA TRI data. Some of the information is tough to find, but it is there somewhere.
Well , all those fish in the streams are mostly seeded. The productivity of our streams and rivers and ponds and lakes could not supply our population with food for more than a month should the energy supply system break down. and we reverted to hunter gatherer life style. Anything that knocks out the grid, or oil/gas supply would strand most of us in urban desserts, devoid of food. we are all just 9 meals from oblivion in our modern, just in time delivery system society. Just look at how we panic and buy all the food in stores before a little snow storm. should things break down, all the fish and game in the woods would be taken in a month. and then what.? Who knows how to grow and can food to provide yourself with a year round supply? Even if we did know how, it takes a year of planting, growing, harvesting and canning to get ready.
Global warming will make that more dificult. Global warming is not mearly a correlation, it’s a hard science fact. a property of matter. Look up the absorption spectrum of CO2. You will see it is extremely focused on the infrared zone of the spectrum. IE heat… increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and it absorbs more heat, and then heats up its neighbor molecules in the air, and we cook. Its just one of its physical properties, not magic.
We all need to be concerned about these things we produce, like GHG’s and polutants . They all come back to affect us. One of the reasons fish and game has to stock streams every year is, not long ago, acid rain would kill most of the fish eggs before they hatched. we have controlled acid rain , mostly, but other changes continue. and then there are just more fisherman than fish. ergo SPORT FISHING of catch and release. Recycling fish. The luxury of playing at being a hunter gatherer without actually depending on them for our food. if we did , they would all be gone . and all the other game in the woods too.
So we have a choice. What can we do? What do we want to do?
It’s the old fable of the grasshopper and the ant.
Nothing wrong with recreational fishing Its not so much playing hunter and gatherer, (though lots of people in this country wouldn’t even have the ability to catch a fish) as it is enjoying nature and the whole experience that is fishing And our fishing licenses help to keep these stocks coming in each year so that we can enjoy fishing And there is a very healthy bass population in White clay that is not stocked. The only stock that comes are trout be it rainbow and brown.
Hey on a positive note if there are people who don’t like sport fishing, there is legislation that is slowly being pushed through that will most likely end up banning “recreational fishing” soon enough.
I have always loved sport fishing. I always kept a few for dinner and let the rest go. for unusual fish, a picture will do, before releasing. Yes, there is tremendous fishing pressure on the fish stocks, expecially in the sea. The restrictions are a late response to the swindling stock of the higher value sport and dinner plate fish. But the real problem reducing their stock is the wholesale strip mining of their food fish. Bunker, makerel crabs, shrimp and clams. and the destruction of their spawning grounds in the bays by polution.
as high value food fish stocks have been decimated, factory fleet ships have moved down the food chain to the base prey fish stocks for protein. at a lesser price. and they clean them out because there are fewer restrictions. As the prey fish decline, so do the predator high value fish decline even more. nothing to eat.
As did I. I grew up fishing, FW and SW, and spent a great deal of time doing both. I finally reached a point where the joy it brought me didnt outweigh the guilt it caused me.
We can justify it all we want but recreational fishing is a bad thing. Period. But, you know whats worse than recreational fishing? This hobby! Just one more thing that does more harm than good no matter how we justify it. As important as the environment is to me i feel like a hypocrite every time i voice my opinion while still actively participating in this hobby. Life sucks.
Speaking of guilt, everyone make sure to bring your used bulbs to the meeting!
Lindsay and I fish there a lot and its a great fishing area (if you get to know the creek :)) Last year there were A LOT of stocked rainbows (and very good sized as well) from what we saw. Year before that lots of browns, but all great fishing for a local creek! (Lots of rock bass and even a few small mouth, so you know its gotta be better than some of the creeks in my PA area that cant sustain the life of blue gills lol.