Andy, You mentioned something about aquascaping. Here’s my attempt @ an open type structure. LMK when you need help.
- ted
Nice job Ted! I think that is the first time I have seen you post any pics.
[quote=“Gordonious, post:2, topic:545”]
Nice job Ted! I think that is the first time I have seen you post any pics. [/quote]
Ha, True
[quote=“Gordonious, post:2, topic:545”]
Nice job Ted! I think that is the first time I have seen you post any pics. [/quote]
I’m not a pic person, I guess. I posted so Andy could see what I was trying to explain about how I built a bridge with my rock. Ty for the compliment, Jon.
Tank def. looks good! Hopefully i will have my frag tank set up soon so I can move all my corals out and then have a rockscaping party on my tank… Any people who want to get their hands wet, the help will be greatly appreciated!!
[quote=“4n4sd4, post:5, topic:545”]
Tank def. looks good! Hopefully i will have my frag tank set up soon so I can move all my corals out and then have a rockscaping party on my tank… Any people who want to get their hands wet, the help will be greatly appreciated!![/quote]
I’m in.
OK, so i have finally talked the wife in to giving up the basement closet to house the fish “extras”. Sump / Fuge skimmer etc.
The closet is right next to where I am setting up the 75g. So I was laying there staring at the ceiling and realized that I no longer need to have a combo sump/fuge unit as I now have much more space to work with. So now I am trying to work out the logistics.
Plumb DT through wall to fuge, put baffle in to receive water from DT, this wil prevent sand storms in fuge. Put another 1/2 baffle 1/2 egg crate at other end to keep sand where it belongs and keep macro-algae from clogging bulkhead to sump.
Plumb fuge to sump underneath, this will give me plenty of room for heaters, skimmer an such. Put a baffle in the sump to keep water level for the skimmer pump from ever getting too low. I can then pump from sump back to DT.
I’m thinking of using (because I already have) a 20L for a fuge, and a 20h for the sump.
I’ve tried attaching a doc that shows the layout I have in mind. I couldn’t figure out how to move it from a Word doc to a picture to upload to photobucket. Sorry.
Am I missing anything vital? Logistical flaws?
Opinions?
Tank Set-up.doc (35 KB)
Well from looking at the picture I can only see one problem. That would be I would probably put the sump above the fuge. This is mainly because of a personal prefrence of having the overflow lines feed directly into the skimmer to prevent the buildup of organics in the sump/fuge area. With the overflow directly feeding the skimmer it makes the most of the surface skimming that is going on in the main tank. Plus that way you may not need the extra chamber in the fuge to slow down the water since it is already not dropping as far into the fuge, only from the sump which could be right next to it.
Otherwise it seems to look pretty good to me… I like the idea of the eggcrate to keep the cheato in place. You might also want to plumb in a small tank that could be used for a frag tank or for water changes. With a water change tank all you do is shut off the return pumps for a few min, close ball valves on the inlet, drain the tank (which can be via another ball valve), and then fill it back up. That way there is no guessing as to how much to drain and you dont have to screw around with air getting into your return pump because you drain the sump (that is a major PIA for me every time I do a waterchange). Even if you dont use a tank I would recommend you put in a drain line in your sump with a ball valve that you can use to drain it for a water change… beats siphoning it out or waiting for a powerhead to pump it all out. While your plumbing might as well make it easy on yourself in the long run.
hey craig, how is your skimmer going to be plumbed?
you can try something similar to my setup which works great. for your fuge, i would just make a spraybar to keep the sand from being stirred up. and on the return side i would just put in two baffles. this will keep your sand/macro from clogging your return and it will function as a bubble trap. i would also plumb in a T and ballvalve on your DT drain so you can adjust the flow through your fuge. i think this is critical, you definitely dont wont the entire turn over of your tank going through you fuge. ive made the changes to your word document.
Tank_Set-up[1].doc (32.5 KB)
im not sure its going to make a difference if you drain into the sump or fuge first becuase not all of the water is going to be skimmed on one pass. however, one advantage of hitting your fuge first is it gives your pods/microfauna etc a chance to go from tank to fuge without being skimmed. it seems that “gentle skimming” is the trend now is this would be a way to simulate the effects. icy has a great point about installing a drain on your sump(not your fuge!). the only thing to remember is that your sump will have to be higher than your drain. if this isnt possible, then do what i did and T off your return with a ball valve. works like a charm and only takes 2 seconds. you defintiely want to take advantage of the chance to rebuild and incorporate an auto topoff, and auto waterchange system.
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:10, topic:545”]
you defintiely want to take advantage of the chance to rebuild and incorporate an auto topoff, and auto waterchange system.[/quote]
I would love to do that. Only problem I have is there is no accessible plumbing anywhere near the tank. I’m still going to have to move buckets of water :-((
I will put a drain line in the sump though, very good idea, thanks Icy. I will just have to drain it to a bucket then dispose of it the way Shawn does…down the toilet it goes.
If you plumb the sump above the fuge, won’t that cause evaporation to occur from the fuge instead of the sump?
I figured having more nutrient rich water hitting the fuge first would give all the things that live there plenty to live on, then skim it before it goes back to the DT.
For weather to use the sump or fuge first I guess its a question of what you want to use the fuge for. If it is to strip the water of nutrients and grow algae, I would plumb it after the sump so the majority of the crud is skimmed out and doesnt accumulate in your DSB and cheato. If you primarily want to raise copeopods and the like, you may want to have it before the sump, but remember that even if the pods get all that food they are going to go through the skimmer before they return to the tank if the fuge is first. Thats why I would argue for the fuge 2nd, because while it may take a little longer to get established, once it does there wont be as much loss of good microfauna between the fuge and the tank. The evaporation will occour in whatever chamber houses the return pump, but that could be the sump and still have the fuge be 2nd. Just put the fuge somewhat above the water level of the main tank and have it gravity feed in.
Instead of swapping positions of the sump and fuge, I guess I could just move the skimmer.
If I put the skimmer in a chamber in the fuge, then i could skim prior to the fuge, use the output from the skimmer for current in the fuge, drain the fuge in to the sump, and pump pristine water back to the DT, right?
This will enable skimming of the dirtiest water, allow copepods to grow in the fuge without concern for the tornado of the skimmer, still allow some nutrients for the pods and cheato, and provide a larger sump for less need to top off.
it might be easier to just install a baffle in your sump and drain you fuge on the return side of the baffle. this way 90% of your pods will bypass your skimmer. this is something ive wanted to do for a while.
no matter what you do though, crud will still accumulate in your fuge! thats what a fuge does. the only fuge that wont look nasty is fast fuge or a new fuge. ive got some really funky stuff going on in my fuge right now and it is fed directly from my 500g rated skimmer ;D
btw, i would keep your skimmer out of the fuge. kind of defeats the purpose of what your trying to do. if diverting the drain from the fuge to a “return chamber” causes microbubbles, you can simply install another baffle. you only need an area large enough for the drain pipe to fit.
[quote=“Cdangel0, post:11, topic:545”]
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:10, topic:545”]
you defintiely want to take advantage of the chance to rebuild and incorporate an auto topoff, and auto waterchange system.[/quote]
I would love to do that. Only problem I have is there is no accessible plumbing anywhere near the tank. I’m still going to have to move buckets of water :-((
I will put a drain line in the sump though, very good idea, thanks Icy. I will just have to drain it to a bucket then dispose of it the way Shawn does…down the toilet it goes.
If you plumb the sump above the fuge, won’t that cause evaporation to occur from the fuge instead of the sump?
I figured having more nutrient rich water hitting the fuge first would give all the things that live there plenty to live on, then skim it before it goes back to the DT.[/quote]
First I added the pics to the above posts. I got the document out of word by hitting print screen on the keyboard, then opening paint and clicked on edit and in the drop down box I selected paste. This will copy the entire page I selected the rectangle “select” tool from the toolbar and outlined the part of the picture I wanted. I right clicked to bring up “cut” and the piece of the picture I wanted was copied. I selected file, then new for the drop down menu and say no to saving the image. A blank screen will be all thats left. Select Edit and then paste again and the image you cut will be back. Save then go to photobucket and upload. Takes about 30 seconds total.
How did I miss the start of this thread?
The auto top off is doable; run the line over to your sons room (where there is a drop ceiling) then run parallel to the ceiling joists. Pop a small hole in the closet ceiling to enter into the closet. I have a metal fishing tape we can use. You will need to get extra tubing to run it the extra length and a small pump to push the water. For the control of the pump to a float valve you can buy a solenoid to turn the water off at the tank or run a wire back tot he tank to turn off the pump at the source (prefer the later)
[quote=“Cdangel0, post:13, topic:545”]
Instead of swapping positions of the sump and fuge, I guess I could just move the skimmer.
If I put the skimmer in a chamber in the fuge, then i could skim prior to the fuge, use the output from the skimmer for current in the fuge, drain the fuge in to the sump, and pump pristine water back to the DT, right?
This will enable skimming of the dirtiest water, allow copepods to grow in the fuge without concern for the tornado of the skimmer, still allow some nutrients for the pods and cheato, and provide a larger sump for less need to top off.[/quote]
Then why have a sump? extra water?
Even a skimmer working a full capacity will not skim 100% of the water that is dumped to the sump. There is no need to worry about the macro algae or copepods not getting enough nutrients or food.
I have learned from experience(and other peoples experience) that you do not want more than one pump. your asking for trouble. Let gravity do all of the work for you!
[quote=“logans_daddy, post:16, topic:545”]
I have learned from experience(and other peoples experience) that you do not want more than one pump. your asking for trouble. Let gravity do all of the work for you![/quote]
Was this directed at my pic? Because I only have one pump. Gravity drops the water out of the display to the sump then a pump raises the water to the elevated fuge and gravity returns the water to the display tank. Although I only drew 1 return line from the sump there could be 2 if he wanted. The only other pump I mentioned was for an ATO to move the top off water from his Ro/Di unit. I was not sure the ro unit could push the water that far without a booster pump.
The more I think about it if you wanted to be able to change water right at the tank that is doable also. The only ?'s would be how much room is between your sons drop ceiling and the joists and the hallway between his room and the wash area; what is on the ceiling? I can’t remember if its drywall or drop ceiling. Either way you could run a 1" pvc pipe back to the wash sink and use a pump on a switch to drive the water.
My mistake Al. I didnt realize that the two lines coming from the tank were both drain lines.
Its actually pretty similar to my setup. i have a pump in my sump that feeds my skimmer that drains into my fuge. Its a pretty good idea. There are just so many ways to do the same thing.
Issues 1 - 100 with running the ATO or 1" PVC over the ceiling… Have you met my wife or looked at my track record with water? :BB)
I may be able to pull the ATO off that way but not the drain. Of course the closet sits on an outside wall, so I could always pump the WC water out of the tank in to the side yard. I have an old garden there that we’ve been trying to kill for 5 years, and the only one who sees that side of the house is my neighbor, who bugs me anyway.
I’d sure appreciate some help in trying to run all the plumbing for this set up. The hallway is a haphazard drop ceiling, I don’t think the closet has a ceiling in it at all so that should make it easier.
Why 2 drain lines coming from the DT?
I have some concerns with pushing water straight up, is there a benefit to this design as opposed to my original plan of gravity feeding the fuge from the DT, then gravity feeding the sump from the fuge and running ATO, Skimmer, and WC pump out of the sump, then pushing water back to the DT?