Hippo Tang Troubles

DRC Archive General Saltwater Discussion
1

Ugh, for some reason I kind of expected this, but my Hippo Tang is flashing. It eats fine and swims fine, however every few passes around some live rock he’ll just start going at it. No other fish are showing signs of distress, all are eating fine. Water params are ph 8.3 0,0,15. This is absolutely normal for my tank and nothing has changed.

EDIT: Salinity was at 1.024, its usually a tad higher. Checked the tank and my cleaner shrimp molted last night. I cannot assume these things are coincidence. I plan on raising the salinity slowly back to 1.025 / 1.026. Thoughts?

I’m hoping this isn’t a sign of ich reproduction. There are no white or black spots to be seen. Eyes are clear, color is crisp, breathing seems to be fine as well.

Any suggestions or ideas?

I’m a few items and a lot of room absent for me to assemble a QT/Med tank… I know, no one kick me when I’m down. I should already have one and sent this fish through it by now. I’m seriously slipping here at my old hobby. I’ve kept Discus (almost mated) and FW Stingrays before (4 years ago).

Thank you for your time as well as any and all help,
Joshua Roark

2

This sounds very common for hippos, i went through it for a month when i first got mine. It was rubbing on rocks constantly, and showed “white spots” often, especially in the morning.
Never treated mine, just fed it good food, nori and mysis

Is it eating?

And IMO taking it out of the tank and qt-ing now would only stress it out more anyway.
As far as salinity, I keep mine at nsw levels 1.026, and if you change it, do it slowly… .001 per day. But the main question before you change it is… how are you measuring it? hydrometer or refractometer?

3

It’s eating just fine, no feeding problems with anyone. However I am stuck using a hydrometer for now. I know they aren’t the most accurate device in the world, but I fill it up slowly and always “shake” off any bubbles. I am slowly increasing salinity (.001 up, with raise another .001 tomorrow). So far the Hippo Tang has actually stopped flashing. I am not sure however if this is due to salinity increase or time of day, etc.
My cleaner shrimp is currently hiding and not… uhh cleaning, as per usual. Again, I’m unsure if this is due to molting last night, salinity too low, blah blah.

In response to the refractometer, I have a couple fellow reefers who may be able to assist me with this. In the meantime… I will just keep observing livestock and water params as best as possible.

OR, do you feel raising the salinity with a hydrometer is just a heinous act of violence?

Thank you again,
Josh

4

I run mine nsw of 1.025.

1.024 -1.026 won’t likely stress the animals at all especially fish. This isn’t the cause of the issues unless, as John said, you are using a hydrometer.

Keep a very close eye on breathing. It can be helpful if you take videos of the fish to compare before and after vs relying on your memory, but granted this isn’t always easy.

Odds are very high the tang will be significantly more stressed in a hospital or qt tank. Do you have any foam filters running yet in your display tank? If not I would make this happen asap so they can become biologically active. I would also get the hospital/qt tank running just so that it is set and good for when ever you may need it. Do a water change on the display and add that water to the qt tank.

You could also be looking at the early warning signs of flukes which can easily significantly stress the animal with out being visible. They are often very prevalent in LFS and holding facilities the fish come through. It is because of the prevalence of these animals recently that many of the experts on fish health have switched from being against any prophylactic treatments to recommending dipping all new fish.

Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It would be a good time to start reading up, BUT I wouldn’t yank the fish out of the tank just yet. Monitor carefully, keep up with your water changes, and take frequent pictures/video if you can.

Places to start reading if you would like: (stickies at the top of these forums)
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx

Best of luck.

5

I wouldn’t mess with your salinity untill you know what it is. Many hobbyist follow the rule of, “if you can’t measure don’t dose” and really you have no idea what your salinity is.

“I know they aren’t the most accurate device in the world,” actually they’re one of the least accurate devices in the world. I know marine biologist that can tell the salinity by taste more accurately then hobby hydrometers.

Shrimp always hide for a while after molting as they are very vulnerable.

Despite what you may have heard there are plenty of fish diseases and parasites that will flat out kill your fish despite what chemistry you keep in your aquariums. Marine biologist way back in the 1950s understood this when they removed “cleaner animals” from sites on the reefs and found significant increase in the number of diseased fish. It is also close to impossible to match ocean conditions in a little glass box. Not to say we shouldn’t try and make significant effort to do so, but it should be known that your animals most likely aren’t going to live in a perfect world.

6

Thank you Gordonias, I figured you might chime in. As stated I am using a plastic POS (tech term) Hydrometer. I’ve asked an associate if he would be willing to bring out his “real equipment” and do some testing for me. I’ll be buying one within the week. But in the meantime I thought it best to ask for help.

I remember flukes from the Discus… I only had one ever get it, but you could clearly see red “scrapes” inside the gills, and the fish would hold one gill open moreso than the other. I am currently not seeing anything of the sort with the fish in question. In fact it seems “happy” now, surfing on the currents and such. All my corals are open and seem happy, including my Carnations, which I would assume would die off first if something were certainly amiss.

Observing,
Josh

7

[quote=“StoneReefer_210, post:3, topic:4684”]
OR, do you feel raising the salinity with a hydrometer is just a heinous act of violence?

Thank you again,
Josh[/quote]

Hydrometer’s are known for being a little off, even brand new right out of the packaging… There’s always a possibility that your water could easily be 1.026, and have a reading of 1.022 with a “swing arm”.

don’t get me wrong, i’m not an equipment snob, but if you’re concerned about salinity accuracy then throw away the hydrometer.

8

[quote=“saltcreep, post:7, topic:4684”]

[quote=“StoneReefer_210, post:3, topic:4684”]
OR, do you feel raising the salinity with a hydrometer is just a heinous act of violence?

Thank you again,
Josh[/quote]

Hydrometer’s are known for being a little off, even brand new right out of the packaging… There’s always a possibility that your water could easily be 1.026, and have a reading of 1.022 with a “swing arm”.

don’t get me wrong, i’m not an equipment snob, but if you’re concerned about salinity accuracy then throw away the hydrometer.[/quote]

The problem with hydrometer’s are some companies calibrate them at 75 degrees, some 77 degrees, some 80 degrees, they are supposed to be calibrated at 60F but most will vary resulting in incorrect results, looked it up. Specific gravity ratios are 1 part water per, say, .026 dissolved solids.

The problem is water expands with heat making it less dense even at subtle temperature variations. This is why we use parts per thousands of salt to measure more accurately.

I don’t have exact numbers so this will be just to get an idea but…

A SG of 1.025 at 80 degrees cooling off to 75 degrees means the water per cubic cm becomes more dense, as the water contracts but the solids do not this means there is now more water per cm2 so the specific gravity changes to something like 1.024.

Specific gravity and salinity are not the same thing, which drives me nuts they print both on a hydrometer.

Salinity is an actual measurement of how much salt per thousand is in the water, in a 1 cubic cm block if the water is 35 ppt at 70 degrees its 35 ppt at 80 degrees but the SG changes by .002

NSW has a SG of 1.0265 on average and a salinity of 35 ppt

9

I just got back home, and now the equipment in question is telling me I’m at 1.023 and one of my Hairy Mushrooms (ricordia I believe) is looking very unhappy… I really don’t want to say melting.

Wow, I really am confused and astounded at just how this day is turning out. I hope this is nothing more than a bad day…

Anyone with a refractometer in Townsend?

???,
Josh

10

Dunk to the rescue! How many thanks? So many many many!

11

All water parameters are perfect. Salinity is 1.024 (hydrometer was reading correctly!), nitrates 5-10, DKH 9.5, calcium 435, and phosphates are at .38 (not doing SPS corals yet). Everyone seems OK, but still observing some of the same behaviors.
We’re just sitting, watching and waiting for the time being. Thanks to everyone for all of your help!!

  • jess & josh
12

[quote=“StoneReefer_210, post:11, topic:4684”]
Salinity is 1.024 [/quote](Salinity is not measured in ratio), SpG is 1.024,[/quote]

[quote=“StoneReefer_210, post:11, topic:4684”]
nitrates 5-10 and phosphates are at .38[/quote]= no where near perfect parameters

Do a few water changes and run some PO4 removal media to reduce nutrients would be my recommendation.

13

[quote=“StoneReefer_210, post:11, topic:4684”]
All water parameters are perfect. Salinity is 1.024 (hydrometer was reading correctly!), nitrates 5-10, DKH 9.5, calcium 435, and phosphates are at .38 (not doing SPS corals yet). Everyone seems OK, but still observing some of the same behaviors.
We’re just sitting, watching and waiting for the time being. Thanks to everyone for all of your help!!

  • jess & josh[/quote]

Glad to hear it ::thumbsup:: My hippo is just a silly acting fish, and it still “rubs” occasionally, seems to make sport of it actually ??? Just give it some time.

14

agree on the parameters not being “perfect”; nitrItes?? mag?? ammonia?? ph??
what are you using to get .38 on phosphates? if it’s not electronic, you probably have much more. sg should be 1.025-6 sorry i missed you last night at tim’s. pond issues. maybe next time

15

Tim, tested everything with his electronic testers. I was told it was OK and was not causing my fish problems. my PH is always 8.3, I have no ammonia or nitrites. We did not test for mag. I’ll get some phosphate “sponge” sometime today. However, read the rest of this posting…

Well, this morning I noticed those damn white spots (maybe 4-5, its too fast to see) on the Hippo for the first time. I also noted a Chromis has a busted pec fin, it looks like he has a rather large white cyst behind the fin hindering movement. I could give two ***** about the Chromis, but the hippo worries me.

Since it appears I now have these parasites in my tank, should I still just let them (fish and parasites) be, and hope for the best? Should I become a reaper and snuff out the chromis?

Theres no way I can pull off another tank right now, esp for the 8 weeks I hear is needed to starve those bastards. I haven’t even had the tank up for 2 whole months yet! Is it possible to just accept this and let it “run its course” and hope it doesn’t kill EVERY fish?

16

[quote=“moliken, post:14, topic:4684”]
agree on the parameters not being “perfect”; nitrItes?? mag?? ammonia?? ph??
what are you using to get .38 on phosphates? if it’s not electronic, you probably have much more. sg should be 1.025-6 sorry i missed you last night at tim’s. pond issues. maybe next time[/quote]

No problem Paul (is that right?). I’m SURE I’ll be around that neck of the woods in the near future… ugh.
Best regards though, thanks for caring.
-Josh

17

Here’s a thought. Could I do things backwards? Could I take out all my coral and inverts (not that many=small tank), put them in a tank, leaving my fish in the DT and attempt hyposalinity? Or is that going to kill my bene bacteria?

I even read some strange guy was putting vodka (carbon source? idk) into his tank @ 7.7ml per 10g of SW caused a bacterial bloom resulting in the fish having a thicker more “comfortable” environment to “fight off” the parasites. This sounds odd to me… but then again I have gotten/seen cool stuff when pouring vodka into people… cough Uhh, but helping in the fight with Ich using Grey Goose sounds pretty sweet.

-Josh

18

I can only tell you what i did, same situation… new tank, new fish, showing “ich symptoms” I did NOTHING but try to keep all params stable. I had a hippo, firefish, yellow tang, and 4 clowns, and a yellow watchman goby all showing some sort of spots (1 1/2 years ago this happened) they’re all still alive.

19

Vodka dosing is a very tricky endeavor and shouldn’t be taken upon without A LOT of research and preparation.

Most fish will have a strong enough immune system to fight off ich, especially if they’re otherwise healthy and eating. There is still a chance it’s not ich, but sores from rubbing on the rock. The key now is to change as little as possible and make the fish strong and happy. Feed them extra, don’t rearrange anything in the tank, and keep your hands out of it, let them eat, swim, and fight the ich themselves.

Taking out the corals would create a box with no hiding places for the fish, you’d also have to remove the rock or you would kill off your bacteria, but if you removed the rock you’d have next to no bio-filter.

Make sure nori is readily available all day - add a little at a time - not 6 whole sheets in the morning to last the day - soak pellets, flake, or frozen in garlic to entice the fish to eat more. The happier the fish the better chance of survival.

20

Great batch of info. I honestly thought the whole vodka thing was bogus, but I was ready to use my small batch icelandic Reyka Vodka (so good)!

Last night someone must have flipped out and decided to rearrange a bunch of small rock and coral. I had to restack as close to a puzzle piece as possible and make sure corals were weighed down. They feed perfectly fine, so adding in garlic will just make feeding time that much more interesting. I have some emerald entree and spiru & brine. I’ll go out today to grab nori and some more garlic cloves.

Tim/Dunk had a cleaner wrasse doing work last night and it was feeding on regular foods as well. Does anyone suggest getting one if I can find it for cheap/free? I know of their death rep. Asking anyway.

Thank you Delaware Reef Club! I really need to come to a meeting and shake all your hands, words do not express my gratitude.

-Josh