Thanks everyone for the input… and i do have it growing…for abot 3 weeks now…it started when the tank hit 1 month old, all over the back glass, but small, dots all over, and almost pea size in about 10 spots, very little growing on the rocks, other than the liverock i got from charlie that was covered in it to start… it seems like a good start to me, but some say to have as much as you can cause its good for the system. so i was trying to figure out if i’m doin alright…or if it should …or could be better… i do like the look of it
…and thanks for the offer Craig… if you think it would help get more growing then i’ll take you up on that!
[quote=“TimH07, post:6, topic:2885”]
::: >:::
Purple up does absolutely NOTHING.[/quote]
Tim hate to say it but you are wrong here… Purple up is a great coralline accelerator if you want to pay the money. Correct that there are easier ways, but it is very effective, if you wanna see just take a look at our tanks. And for those who don’t think its important… Coralline algae is the building blocks for successful reefs both in our small tanks and in our oceans.
Remember it claims to be an accelerator, and it does just that, you will have steady slow growth over time, but purple up will accelerate the growth.
What chemical reaction does it have to accelerate growth?
At best it adds calcium to the tank (based on their bottle stating that “it delivers fine aragonite to the rocks where it dissolves in situ (in place)”. This statement itself is retarded, if you have high flow you wont get much silt settlement where you want it, and if you do your PH must plummet to dissolve it, than your flow had better not move the dissolved calcium.
It also states it has “Ionic calcium” in it. What type? Calcium chloride? calcium hydroxide? Polygluconate Calcium? Chances are if its chloride than thats what they are banking on, its basically 1 of a 2 part system thats going to deplete your alkalinity as “ionic calcium” should be dosed equally with bicarbonate.
Coralline algae grows at the same rate with 400ppm calcium as it does 450ppm. Nothing in that bottle accelerates it at all. How do you know the purple up is affecting it? how do you know it wouldn’t grow that rate without the product in the tank? I’ll sell you a bottle of water and call it algae grow, and guess what, if you use it alot you’ll see algae in your tank!
If you have it, it will grow, purple up IS just snake oil for the impatient.
Lastly, who the heck wants to accelerate that crap??!?! Hell its an on going battle to rid myself of it!
I scrapped this back glass two weeks ago
even in the sump under a single 6500K CFL i had to clean it off the glass to take this pic!
[quote=“TimH07, post:24, topic:2885”]
Lastly, who the heck wants to accelerate that crap??!?! Hell its an on going battle to rid myself of it![/quote]
Do some reading on it in the wild… it is the backbone of the reefs we take our corals from… lol So I’d say it is something I want, you can complain about it i guess… but its a beneficial organism not a negative like many of the other algae you see (also helps prevent lots of the other algae from growing).
And look at your rocks… where is the coralline?
see coralline on the rock prevents the bad algaes that you see on many peoples rocks… like hair algae and many more…
[quote=“TimH07, post:24, topic:2885”]
At best it adds calcium to the tank (based on their bottle stating that “it delivers fine aragonite to the rocks where it dissolves in situ (in place)”. This statement itself is retarded, if you have high flow you wont get much silt settlement where you want it, and if you do your PH must plummet to dissolve it, than your flow had better not move the dissolved calcium.
If you have it, it will grow, purple up IS just snake oil for the impatient.[/quote]
Tim, do you have experience with the product? Or is this a regurgitation of the many reefcentral threads about it? I’ve used it in the past, and can say that it does increase the growth of coraline algae. The question is whether it is needed if you are dosing two-part, or kalk, or whatever else. If you are dosing these elements there is probably no need for the Purple Up. If not, it is an easy way to get your tank rolling in the right direction until you learn to dose calcium/magnesium on a regular basis.
+1
worked for me… and Jcling is right its like the tree algae… It grows and blocks out the other nuisance algae from growing. the same way a tree shades the ground so that weeds cannot grow…
I have red algae growing ON the coralline algae causing it to die and fall off the glass.
I was trying to help not win, its your money enjoy your snake oil.
http://www.caribsea.com/pages/pop_up_window/additives/faq/faq_Purple_up.html
if you don’t see something wrong with that information… well… i don’t know what to tell you.
Not so much winning or losing. If you have tried a product and it has not worked for you, then you might not like it. There are many who have used it, and say it does work. I say if someone is interested, they can take a look at the pictures, and make decisions for themselves… Personally I would pick the tank w/ more coralline though. Speaks for itself. Just my :TWOCENTS
Just another example of a tank I started about 3 months ago and add purple up once in a while… and seeded the tank w/ the one small rock in the middle and you can see the coverage. The rest of the rocks were not covered in coralline at all. (They started w/ lots of nuisance and after the snails cleaned them off they started their coralline growth.) That was the only supplementation to this particular tank… (and just one more note… that white rock is one i threw in there about a week ago to get it covered in coralline before I grow some GSP’s on it :))
[quote=“TimH07, post:29, topic:2885”]
I was trying to help not win, its your money enjoy your snake oil.[/quote]
[quote=“Jocephus, post:26, topic:2885”]
Tim, do you have experience with the product? Or is this a regurgitation of the many reefcentral threads about it? I’ve used it in the past, and can say that it does increase the growth of coraline algae. [/quote]
The problem with a product like Purple Up is that no one knows if their coraline expolded as a result of or in spite of the supplement. My tank covered in coraling extremely quickly and I have never used it. Others (Like Joe) have seen it grow very quickly and have used it.
I have yet to meet someone who has run a controlled test where the exact same things were dosed, side by side, With all parts being equal EXCEPT the use of Purple-Up. I for one would be very interested to see the end result so we can definitively speak to this topic.
Anyone got a couple spare tanks or fishbowls sitting around? We don’t need big, we don’t need fancy lighting (as coraling isn’t as light dependent as everyone thinks it is) we just need side by side experimentation.
Well I did a similar test with one 20g tank. I being someone who has done 2 years of research myself, know that this is not a scientifically significant experiment but I only dosed w/ purple up, and there are the pictures. I could do a scientific experiment with a hypothesis and all, but it is a waste of time, money, and effort.
Some people will go w/ what they have heard in the past no matter what scientific findings might be found. Even if this test were done, people will find a way to pick it apart, and even if there were significant differences, a scientific test can’t prove things… If you find something statically significant, thats all you do, it doesn’t Prove anything. Then you are back at square one. Hence why people don’t waste their time 
As I said simple way to see a difference, look at the pictures, very noticeable differences IMO. Just my :TWOCENTS once again
[quote=“TimH07, post:24, topic:2885”]
Coralline algae grows at the same rate with 400ppm calcium as it does 450ppm.[/quote] You sure on this? Personal experience or do you have some article supporting this statement?
[quote=“TimH07, post:24, topic:2885”]
Lastly, who the heck wants to accelerate that crap??!?! Hell its an on going battle to rid myself of it![/quote]
Did you read what others had to say in this thread? Jcling made a VERY valid point.
[quote=“Jcling, post:23, topic:2885”]
And for those who don’t think its important… Coralline algae is the building blocks for successful reefs both in our small tanks and in our oceans.[/quote]
Even “soft corals†will grow a LOT faster on rock encrusted with coralline vs a bare substrate. Larval state of corals seek out coralline to settle on. If you even had the option of running a reef tank without coralline you would be crazy to.
I do agree that it is a good idea to point out that in the future it is likely if John continues to take good care of his tank and keeps his levels in line that he will laugh at the fact that he wanted this crap to grow which he then finds a pain to remove from the glass. Now however if he wants a healthy reef tank and provides the proper light for his corals well something is going to grow on those rocks. Corals will grow on them very slowly without the presence of algae. More than likely what would grow on the rocks would be unsightly algae and bacteria which would compete with corals vs giving them a substrate to live on.
At the stage John is at with his tank he wants corraline to grow and is not wrong for looking into way into accelerating the process.
Tim you just seem to be passionate about something I am not sure you fully understand.
Rid myself of it was a poor choice of words, rid my GLASS of it is what i ment, i have it and want it on my rocks.
It really baffles me that so many people swear by it not knowing whats in it. Why should it be proven it doesn’t work? shouldn’t it have to be proven to work? Adding it to a tank where the stuff is going to grow anyway is no proof that the product works.
What is in the bottle is literally powdered aragonite (CaCO3) suspended in water, AragaMIGHT is the powdered form. CaCO3 as aragonite begins to dissolve at a pH of 7.7 and below. CaCO3 as calcite begins to dissolve at a pH of 7.4 and below. All of these products are powdered calcium carbonate. Any calcium test kit you use on it is also going to give you a false reading as the low PH of the reagents will dissolve the aragonite thus showing as a result (perhaps why people think it works?)
Jon, you seem like someone who appreciates a good read. This paper covers corals as well as coralline algae but it focuses mid paper on calcification rates in coralline based on lighting levels not calcium levels.
http://www.globalcoral.org/CALCIUM%20CARBONATE%20DEPOSITION%20BY%20CORALLINE%20ALGAE.pdf
I’m with Tim on th is one. Unless someone will tell me exatly what is in something, and in what concentrations, I would never dose it. It says it contains Iodine and Ionic Calcium… ok… at what levels? Iodine is good for tank at trace levels, but can become toxic at higher levels. To high of a Ca level can sometimes cause problems as well because it throws the rest of the levels out of whack. Its intersting that so many advanced hobbiests who say dont dose anything you cant test for swear by purple up.
And if all purple up contains is dissoved CaCO3… I am going to start bottling the output of my Ca reactor and selling it for 10$ a bottle. I would tell ANY new hobbiest to maintain their levels propoerly… and the Calcareous Algae should grow at the same speed, if not faster, than if they add these supplements. As long as a tank is maintained properly, corraline becomes a nusiance.
If you really want to speed up your corraline growth do the following:
- Keep your calcium around 450
- Keep your Alk around 10-11 dkh
- Keep your magnesium 1350-1450
- Cut your 10K lights and just run the actinics.
- Scrape the corraline off the glass as it grows.
The reasons for each step:
1, 2, & 3: There is no secret to growing corraline algae. It needs the same levels as hard corals. It will use some phosphate and nitrate to grow as well, in addition to some small amount of trace nutrients. All of those will be in your tank. Nitrates/phophates from your cycle, and the trace elements will be there from doing waterchanges. There is NOTHING else required to grow corraline that I have ever seen. I havent EVER used purple up on any of our tanks, and they get corraline right on schedule. No new tank will ever have tons of corraline untill it can grow and fill in.
-
The reason behind the lighting is that coralline grows best under the blue spectrum of lights. I think Craig hit on this fact, but I’m not sure if he mentioned that high light levels can actually inhibit coralline algae growth. If you dont belive it, check out any tank that runs halides. Directly under where the blub is (if theres no corals there) there is usally a spot that is completly free of corraline. This is because the intense light levels kill it off. On natural reefs you dont see coralline covering the tops of the reef, only the nooks and crannies of the coral heads.
-
As Craig said, if you disperse the corraline that is already growing, it will spread faster. This doesnt mean that it will grow faster. Just that it will disperse around the tank faster, as all of the corraline that you scraped off will find a new home somewhere. You are still restriced as to how fast the corraline can grow, but IMO no supplements other than good old fashioned water chemistry are needed. Corraline is not going to completly cover your tank for probably 6-8 months no matter how many bottles of purple up are dumped in.
interesting post tim, now i can procrastinate at work even more ;D
I think Ian hit on this fact, but I'm not sure if he mentioned that high light levels can actually inhibit coralline algae growth.
As Ian said, if you disperse the corraline that is already growing
Obviously im missing something here ??? Is there another thread? another Ian? or has Bellamy been working on a DIY project all day and glueing PVC in a room with no air circulation? >LOL<
[quote=“icy1155, post:37, topic:2885”]
To high of a Ca level can sometimes cause problems as well because it throws the rest of the levels out of whack.
Corraline is not going to completly cover your tank for probably 6-8 months no matter how many bottles of purple up are dumped in.[/quote]
I run my Ca well above what others suggest and I and many others have yet to see ill effects, and I have done it for over a year in my tanks. Excess Ca will simply create calcium deposits… go figure lol. Which have No ill effects on a tank. I have found when my Ca levels drop these will dissolve and act as one more buffer in the tank.
Did you see my pictures after 3 months? lol… (that is with purple up and no other supplementation. All of those rocks were w/o coralline. only rock that had it was the really small one in the middle.)