Ok guys after seeing A’s tank show the other night at the meeting I am more sure then ever now that it’s time to invest in a great powerhead/wave maker. I am running 3 hydors in my 75gal bowfront and can see the dead spots. After trying to re adjust the powerheads and putting the units on a wavemaker strip Im still not happy so it’s time to upgrade. YahoO the one issue I really need to take into consideration is the space it takes up since I have a relatively small tank. I have done alot of research between the two but IMO people’s personal experiences tell a heck of alot more. So anyone who has either of these brands please tell me your likes/ dislikes, and would you have still gone with your choice now looking backs?
Thanks guys
I have a mp20 and a mp40w/es and would not go back.
Pro’s to me- wide flow pattern, different flow modes my favorites being wave and reef crest though there is a nutrient export mode which I have not played with but looks like it would be good. Lower tank temps due to external motor. easy to use and dial in the amount of flow you want. feed mode turns the pumps off for 10 minutes. wireless/wired function so you can sync the pumps. long wires for ease of installation. low wattage usage.
cons- External motor so you have to make sure no one bumps them, wider flow sometimes hits the sand to much even high up on the tank but can be tuned down so that does not happen, big opening at the ends so snails can get in and hit the propeller(happened only once to me and it was loud).
That is about all I can think of. I tried the mp20 in my 20long tank and loved it. If I had another mp40 I would put the mp20 back in it. Over all I love these pump and the biggest problem with them is the cost in all out reality. As some have said sometimes simpler is better. Expensive equipment is a easy way to bury yourself in these tanks.
flow IS flow… and you don’t need to spend big bucks to get it… but then again…if i had coin to drop, it would be on vortec… actually a pair, because just one still leaves your tank needing at least another source of flow (besides the return)… from what i hear anyway. it sounds right to me :
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… so… a pair of mp40’s…CHA-CHING to the tune of about a thousand bucks… ouchy
thats what i’d need anyway…maybe bigger
but, no wires in the tank, and the relatively smaller propeller/cage portion that magnets inside, while the motor, wires, heat are all on the out… great idea, and they must be easy to pop off and clean, without plugs and wire re-routing to mess with.
oh yeah, the fancy light up controller with the wave settings, they’re just in a league of their own it seems.
As far as moving water efficiently, and reliably i’m not sure. I know tim loves his tunzes with the mods…
maybe one of each… all i know is if a powerhead has to be in sight, vortec is where its at imo…
yep, i’ll be putting them on my x-mas list again this year… i think that’ll be 3, maybe 4 years in a row now verdict_in
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I chose Tunze after a lot of research the reason I did Tunze are.
They are cheaper
You can direct flow
You can do narrow flow or wide
You can change jumpers for diff power 12v 18v 24v
They plug n play with the apex
They’re quieter in most cases about 90%
They have an add on to cover the pump looks like a rock
The slots are smaller so they won’t suck livestock
If its $1000 for two vortechs then for 1-2 hundred more you can get the tunzes and an apex. The best thing about vortech is no power in the tank IMO they take up less room but not much. I couldn’t use them they blow strait and that’s it. Booth are good but I like korallias too IMO it’s better to have 5 pumps than two big ones it gives a lot more options. And better random flow.
As John said, “flow IS flow… and you don’t need to spend big bucks to get it” is very much true. I’ve been using the same wave maker using 4 MJ1200 ever since this tank have been set up, costing me $125.
However, if you have deep pockets, these Vortech MP40 W/es are very nice for a medium size tank, even for just one pump as I’m using now. I think what Jeff said about it is very much true. And you can also hook these up to APEX systems as well. I myself could never afford two new ones, much less one. Someone was getting out of the hobby and wanted to get rid of their stuff, believe it or not I got the pump for $40.
I can not speak for Tunze since I have never used them, but it seems for the price and functions the way Tim mention it it may be worth while.
Yes A they can be used with apex but don’t you have to buy a piece for them to connect to it? I think its a hundred bucks
[quote=“dunk, post:6, topic:5810”]
Yes A they can be used with apex but don’t you have to buy a piece for them to connect to it? I think its a hundred bucks[/quote]
You’re correct Tim.
I agree that either one of these pumps are the better pumps on the market and not having any of them, I can not voice an opinion. But for me I went with Seio circulating pumps when I built my tank setup. I purchased 2 1500’s which move alot of water. And that was 8 yrs ago and they are still running great, 24/7, every day for the past 8 yrs. Since then, they now make an even bigger model, 2600 gph. For only @ $80 each, I believe they are a good deal. :
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I know they are big and bulky and don’t look real good in the tank, but I feel that people should be looking at my corals in the tank and not the pumps. LOL ::
Just my :TWOCENTS
http://www.aquacave.com/Seio-2600-Super-Flow-Water-Pump-P520.aspx
I am about to give Tunzes a shot with the next build I do(which will start as soon as I get over this cold) Only reason is because I have never played with them before and want to get some hands on experience with them. With that being said:
[quote=“dunk, post:4, topic:5810”]
They are cheaper[/quote]
Is that the case? The last time I looked into them when the “Study” was released that caused Tunze to change all it’s former quotes on how much flow they made. The Tunzes were more expensive for less GPH. Then they came up with some story about how it all depend on how you measured the flow and came up with a mod kit that still came short of what Vortechs can do.
[quote=“dunk, post:4, topic:5810”]
You can direct flow[/quote]
How would you better direct these power heads? Point them a little further left? Maybe a little further right? Seriously if you are working with a real wave maker the direction really doesn’t matter that much.
Even before I started spending money on Vortechs and were going with larger and larger Hydors and maxijet mods I found I couldn’t really point the powerheads at anything. They needed to be facing the open area of the tank right where a Vortech would go and point anyways.
To me if we are trying to imitate nature and the livestock all comes from where the waves are crashing down… Nothing mimics better and helps keep the tank cleaner then waves.(well randomizing the flow helps a bit with filtering which can be done with either Tunze or Vortech using an Apex)
Vortech work with Apex as well, but it does require an add on.
Bottom line for me.(not having hands on experience with Tunze) If your tank is not in the room you sleep in or the room you watch movies in Vortech is the way to go. The biggest draw back I can find with them is the noise. Having half the pump outside of the tank(out of your full tank shot) and being easier to clean are huge pluses in my book. I own many Vortechs and use them on many of my clients aquariums.
BTW, the noise is not that bad if you can hear your skimmer. If you purchased an expensive skimmer pump that reduces the noise because you couldn’t stand it, then Vortech may not be the way to go.
Cheaper yes and able to direct flow up down left and right yes. You can’t with vortech thats a fact and someone on the Internet did a test on gph how they did it and who they are I don’t know. With the direction it all depends on what your setup is I have my power head moving water at an angle from the back corner to the other side front coral and I have corals growing to the surface that would be blasted if I couldn’t direct the flow.
Thanks for all the opinions guys,
Most are what I had expected as far as pro’s & con’s. The one thing I do like about the vortechs is they are simple right out of the box. Here is the pump, power source and controller. Very plug and play IMO, where it seams as if the tunzes you need to purchas a separate controller or the apex, is this correct?. So do they truly end up being cheaper?
I do agree that flow is flow and you don’t always need to purchas high dollar equipment, but like I had previously said I’m running 3 hydors plus a double headed return pump and it’s just not getting the job done. And there is really no place to add another one unless I re confuiger my rock scape which at this point I’m not really willing to do at this point. So my plan is to replace two of the hydors with either the Tunze or vortec to save on space, since at this point upgrading the tank is not gonna happin for at least 6 month to a year.
Lynchie, what gpm are the 3 Hydors you’re using putting out.
I’m actually looking at getting some hydors (as I just put a post up about) because of their affordability. I see you are using three and just wondering how much water you’re moving around. I had one MJ1200 in laminar flow mode in my tank and due to it not having a wide pattern was blasting the opposite side of the tank pretty good.
With out programming Vortech with the Apex(which requires an additional part) it is a bit annoying to program a Vortech. “Hold button two until it the light flashes pink twice and then blue. Then set the intensity you want it to flow. Then push button one once for short waves, twice for long waves, three for nutrient title. Then push and hold button three for ~ five seconds and wait for the light to flash three times”. That is pretty much what you do, but not exactly right. Bottom line it is a bit annoying.
With the Apex programming I tell it:
Set 120wave
If Time 13:35 to 13:45 Then Nutrient
If FeedC 999 Then OFF
Then I set a profile up for 120Wave and Nutrient where I can type in the specific intensity, length of pulse(wave), and so on. VERY simple to do.
Here is the other thing about spending the money on either Tunze or Vortech. Some people buy a skimmer when they start a marine tank and then upgrade to the best one their local fish store has because the cheap model wasn’t enough. Then discover online forums and buy the best model(according to some random guy). The money they spent on the first two likely would have bought the best one and the other two were sold for practically nothing or sit in the garage.
Same story with lighting and flow. If you buy cheap, but are serious about the hobby you’ll often want to upgrade down the line. Cheap equipment is cheap equipment. I had a brand new Hydor in a clients aquarium stop running have a power cycle. Thankfully I was there to restart it or I could have lost animals. The new models are not supposed to lock up, but they often do.
I have used the MP10s, MP20s, and MP40s and I never want to buy another powerhead again. I think hands down they are the nicest powerheads you can buy. I have one MP10 in my 29 gallon and not a single dead spot and it only runs about 50%. I like that the flow is wider so it doesnt blast corals the way other powerheads do. As far as noise it is a bit louder than most powerheads but i don’t even hear it anymore. I used to have 3 powerheads plus the return pump in my Biocube and still had dead spots and now just the mp10 without the return pump and have better flow than before. Also had 2 mp40s on a 7 foot tank with the dual returns and had amazing flow. I think they look a thousand times better in the tank, keep excess heat out of the tank and while they are a bit pricey they are totally worth it. As soon as I can find a used mp40 on ebay my 75 will have that and the mp10 on it. I cant speak about the controller aspect of it but i dont recall the vortech being that hard to program. Also once you program it once how often do you really need to change it? The only time i fiddle with mine is sometimes turning it up or down if i think the flow is looking a little off and all that takes it turning a dial.
[quote=“ponies99, post:15, topic:5810”]
Also once you program it once how often do you really need to change it?[/quote]
True.
The only reason I have changed mine recently is I went from a fish less tank to one with 19 fish. I thought the flow I had used previously would have ejected the fish from the tank, but since they have become acclimated I have decided to turn it up again.
Note, ponies had 2 MP40s on a 7foot tank likely before the MP60 showed up on the market. 1-2 MP60s may be better now.
Another note in general. If you are spending a lot of time and money on your tank. The extra money for a battery that will keep the tank from going stagnant for over a day with out power… Sure if you can afford $7000 for a whole house generator + what it costs to have a professional electrician hook it up then go that route, but the $165 for a battery could be less then what it takes to have a professional electrician even show up at your house.
[quote=“Gordonious, post:16, topic:5810”]
This was before the Mp60s came out and while they did run at 100% all the time there was more than enough flow. 1 was placed high and 1 was placed lower on opposite ends from each other and the middle of the tank still had a lot of flow. The rock work was also fairly open so im sure if you had a giant rock wall across the entire tank then you might get some dead spots in the middle.
Im sure this is just my opinion but sometimes i think the problems people have with flow are due more to the way they have set up their rock work rather than what powerhead you have. You could have 3 mp60s on a tank but if you have a solid wall of rock then you are still going to have flow problems. I try to use minimal rock so that i have plenty of places for fish to swim through and water to flow but still having a lot of places for coral.
I agree on that as well. Open space is good for flow, maintenance, fish, coral growth, and artistically pleasing. Too much rock is very short sighted. If you plan on keeping coral and actually take care of it… it grows. I believe I almost have more coral mass in my 120 then rock.
That’s the mistak I made too much rock so flow is harder to get right it was a lot of work getting it right and as my corals grow it gets harder. I need a bigger tank and I’ll take my experience and use it and hope to have minimal problems and easy to move stuff.
[quote=“dunk, post:19, topic:5810”]
I need a bigger tank[/quote]
Ditto.
But question. If you started over and had a better rockscape would it not be less important to point the power heads? So if making a suggestion to someone else who is starting from scratch or who has an open rock scape, doesn’t the “pointing in any direction” become a mute point?
Again using this example how could you improve the flow by pointing the flow in any particular direction?
Asking questions in all seriousness not just to make a point. As I said I will be experimenting with Tunzes soon. I likely would not be experimenting if I did not have the chance to on my clients aquariums.